There was a pretty heated discussion of Islam on comedian Bill Maher’s HBO show over the weekend. And on Monday night (10/6/14), Fox host Bill O’Reilly decided to weigh in.
His first point was that most Muslims support Sharia law, which he portrayed as very troubling:
There are about 1.6 billion Muslims and 35 countries practice some kind of sharia law. That means they are governed by people who abide by principles of Islam that are controversial to say the least. In some places you can even be stoned to death for committing a sin.
A study published by the Pew Research Center last year asked Muslims if they favor sharia law. In Afghanistan, 99 percent do; Pakistan 84 percent; Iraq 91 percent; Egypt 74 percent; Jordan 71 percent…. So you can see that millions of Muslims think their religion should dictate what happens in society.
But “sharia” doesn’t mean supporting “stoning people to death.” The Pew survey (4/30/13) he allegedly read explains that sharia
offers moral and legal guidance for nearly all aspects of life–from marriage and divorce, to inheritance and contracts, to criminal punishments. Sharia, in its broadest definition, refers to the ethical principles set down in Islam’s holy book (the Quran) and examples of actions by the Prophet Muhammad (sunna).
Or, as Pew puts it elsewhere: “According to the survey findings, most Muslims believe sharia is the revealed word of God rather than a body of law developed by men based on the word of God.”
And Sana Saeed wrote a really great piece about the myths of sharia:
So what does Sharia actually mean? The actual definition of the Arabic term is “path to the watering hole.” It consists of moral and ethical principles meant to guide Muslims towards what will nourish their soul. According to Islamic law specialist Dr. Sherman Jackson, Sharia is everything “from honoring one’s parents, to helping the poor, to being good to one’s neighbor.”
So support for sharia law might not be all that revealing. But for Bill O’Reilly, it’s a chance to draw the conclusions you wish to draw about Muslims. The Pew poll also makes clear that Muslims do not “think their religion should dictate what happens in society.” Most who support sharia law think it should apply only to Muslims, and Pew notes that “most Muslims around the world express support for democracy, and most say it is a good thing when others are very free to practice their religion.”
O’Reilly’s rant was intended to support Maher’s Islamophobia (see Extra!, 8/13):
Mr. Maher is correct on the overall effect Islam is having on the world right now. The truth is many Muslim nations have not confronted Islamic terrorism, have not attacked violence in the name of Allah, and have not even condemned the jihad. There are exceptions to the rule, but they are few.
It’s never a good idea to conflate “Muslims” with the dictators who lead Muslim countries (“Muslim nations”). But if O’Reilly looked at that same poll he found so useful, he’d notice that massive majorities of Muslims oppose religious violence:
Muslims around the world strongly reject violence in the name of Islam. Asked specifically about suicide bombing, clear majorities in most countries say such acts are rarely or never justified as a means of defending Islam from its enemies.
Nonetheless, he wraps up this wildly misleading rant by insinuating that while not all Muslims cheered the 9/11 attacks, a whole lot of them sure did:
You may remember that hours after America was attacked by Al-Qaeda on 9/11, thousands of Muslims, regular folks, celebrated in the streets. They were happy that more than 3,000 innocent people, including Muslims, were murdered. Again, these people are a minority, but they were not called out in any official way by Muslim nations around the world.
To illustrate this, O’Reilly plays a clip (one that is very familiar to Fox viewers) of what appears to be a dozen or people in East Jerusalem. But it is far easier to document the ways Muslims around the world showed solidarity with the United States, with Muslim leaders and scholars speaking out and clearly condemning the atrocities.
And this “where-were-the-Muslims-on-9/11” line is one’s been using for over a decade. As I wrote in my book The Oh Really? Factor:
O’REILLY: “The telling event here is that faced with a violent faction using the name of Allah to kill civilians, Muslims the world over did little. There were no mass demonstrations against terrorism, no peace vigils and no organized condemnation of the Al-Qaeda criminals. In fact, many Muslim countries actually condoned the attacks on September 11 or blamed them on ‘the Jews.'” (column, 8/1/02)
OH REALLY: There was a vigil in Iran shortly after the attacks: “On Tuesday, more than than 3,000 mostly young people held a candlelight vigil in Tehran for the victims of the terror attacks, closely watched by security forces” (New York Times, 9/21/01). A few days earlier (9/15/01), the Times reported that “thousands of people attending a World Cup qualifying match between Bahrain and Iran observed a moment of silence.”
None of this is especially new from O’Reilly (see FAIR Blog, 5/13/14), who is careful to include this caveat:
As Talking Points stated last week, most Muslims are peaceful people. Even if they do believe in sharia law, that’s a flaw in their thinking, it doesn’t mean they are violent maniacs.
Whew, that’s good. Though if he believes that, it would indicate a shift from a few years ago (FAIR Blog, 5/20/11):
For every Muslim in the world that wants democracy and wants human rights, there is one who doesn’t. And the one who doesn’t, doesn’t have any rules. And it will blow the hell out of the one that does.
At least his Islamophobia is evolving.
While I will never defend O’Reilly, I have to come to the defense of Maher. He is equally critical of all religions, not just Islam, and he usually tells it like it is. He exhibits more courage taking on the evangelicals and the likes of O’Reilly than almost anyone in show business.
Just because you don’t like what he’s saying doesn’t mean that there isn’t a kernel of truth to it.
There are some decent points made in this post, and TV personalities should not and cannot be expected to approach these issues as padded-elbow scholars. There is no doubt some rhetorical overkill by people like O’Reilly and Maher.
But Sam Harris, who appeared on Maher’s panel, is correct. There is indeed a direct connection between the words in the Quran and hadith and the beliefs they undergird — and the actions of violent Muslims. Islam, through many (later, thus abrogating) verses, does call for viewing the world in a Muslims vs. infidel battle, and it does preach intolerance of apostates and infidels, and even of Christians and Jews in some passages. It is not difficult to justify this religious us-vs.-them mentality with even a cursory reading of the Quran, and there are plenty of hadith that obligate Muslims to participate in defensive jihad (again, in defense of Muslims) and even offensive jihad. Zawahiri has written a long a scholarly treatise that even finds warrant for the killing of non-combatants (according to a statement made by Muhammad about the permissibility of attacking the inhabitants of a fortified city).
Pointing out that ISIS and al-Qaeda are living a plausible interpretation of Islam is not bigotry (and certainly not racism or Islamophobia). Again, like Harris, I am on the Left, and one would normally expect the Left to recognize aggressive theocracy when it sees it.
http://www.samharris.org/blog/item/can-liberalism-be-saved-from-itself
http://www.samharris.org/blog/item/sleepwalking-toward-armageddon
No Art, you got it wrong. There isnt a Kernel of truth to it.
I think that last quotation could be at least as plausible (or “plausible”, air quotes) if you change the word “Muslim” to “Christian.” (Or to “American.” So: “For every Christian in the world that wants democracy and wants human rights, there is one who doesn’t. And the one who doesn’t, doesn’t have any rules. And it will blow the hell out of the one that does.”
Did Bill Maher speak out about the Gaza War? In his film Religulous, the only Jewish figure he criticized was one who was critical of Zionism, Rabbi Weiss of the Neturei Karta. Even though a scene showing him standing next to convicted terrorist Yahuda Etzion, Maher had the opportunity to condemn religiously-sanctioned settlements in the West Bank, if he wanted to.
Ben Affleck made a salient point when he mentioned that the West has killed far more Muslims in the last 20 years than Muslims have killed apostates. Maher, as well as Sam Harris, don’t seem fazed by the secular violence that America’s drone program doles out to admitted innocents, hundreds each year. For O’Reilly as well, this American violence doesn’t show a “flaw” in our thinking.
What Bill Maher and Ben Affleck were really arguing about was who’s the bigger douche. It was a tie, hands down. http://dandygoat.com/ben-affleck-bill-maher-argue-about-whos-the-bigger-douche
“Islamophobia” is a term invented by the Muslim Brotherhood in order to smear critics of ISIS.
.. these people are not using their minds, if really there is one.. God is d creator.. His is life & death.. d more u want to stop Islam thru genocide, d more it grows.. it needs no terrorist.. in fact, issues about terrorism, genocide, etc. just make Islam grow wider & stronger.. so, thank u people.. keep on ur batteries of charges against Islam, more, more & more.. ur selling ur views that people listens to, ur selling Islam too..
If the Fux Snooze Nitwork suddenly decided that “Christians” were Fundamentalist Terrorists, he would use his same made up facts to proof his point. When Bill needs proof of anything, he simply makes up the facts he needs.
In other words when listening to Bill, you had better have a salt shaker filled and ready to consume.
David Bean 1 day ago All anyone need do is read the bio of Muhaamad when him and his followers left Medina to Mecca and learn of what they did to the Jews who dare disagree with with Muhammad and see the heinouos ways the Muslims did the Jews! You will learn the game plan that Muslims use today.
And all you have to do is read a Christian Bible to find out that the Christians worship a Vengeful, Hateful, Lying, Misanthropic, Insane Deity. At least if your going to dis Muhammad, take the time to use the spell check.
In the meantime, although Pasial is little better with ‘Txt Spk’, there is a major point there; the more people like smear them, the more they are going to stand up and fight back. And before you go all ‘funky mentalist’, just remember that there was 22 Crusades in which the Supposed Christians sent those who they disliked for what ever reason, to their death so they could steal the lands. Those were leaders in Europe. And sometime read up on the actual crusades where there was ever vile perversion including Cannibalism “in the name of the (so called) Christian Deity”.
People in Glass houses should not be tossing boulders around.
Apropos
Islamophobia and a Challenge to Bill Maher – Deepa Kumar on Reality Asserts Itself (1/3)
Ms. Kumar tells Paul Jay that what Bill Maher said is a perfect example of liberal Islamophobia
http://therealnews.com/t2/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=31&Itemid=74&jumival=12506
“So you can see that millions of Muslims think their religion should dictate what happens in society.” So do a lot of Christians. Most of the ones who do seem to be right wingers in the media, which is mostly made up of right wing rhetoric.
If you want to call Maher an islamophobe – go for it, and back it up (the one link you have for Maher in this article is pretty weak argument for calling Maher an islamophobe).
But it’s disingenuous to use Maher’s name in the title of this post and (in doing so) lump him with O’Reilly – without having any discussion at all of anything Maher actually said.
I expect more from a group who supposedly takes pride in their name of “Fairness and Accuracy”. At least you gave O’Reilly the courtesy of discussing what he said. It’s only “fair” to give Maher the same treatment.
I have read the entire Koran many times. It counsels Muslims to behave with compassion and justice. Anyone who claims differently hasn’t read the entire Koran, or has read something written by an Islamophobe pretending to “explain” it.
The Pew Center, like Mr. Hart, is less than candid by disclosing only some favorable aspects of sharia, i.e., “Sharia is everything “from honoring one’s parents, to helping the poor, to being good to one’s neighbor.” Unfortunately both Pew and FAIR’s Mr.Hart omitted mention of the sharia’- specified crimes and punishments that DO INCLUDE lashing for premarital sex, stoning for adultery, amputation for theft, etc.
White males — Maher, O’Reilly, Harris — need to shut their pie holes and learn some humility. Why is the violence committed by the West glossed over (and who cares whether it’s in the name of Christian fundamentalism or market fundamentalism)? I am so sick of stupid white men pointing at others instead of spending a few minutes looking at themselves, their attitudes, their personal support for war and violence. We don’t need to look into the past to see endless examples of Western violence; it is every day, every hour, every minute, bombing, killing, destroying.
I base my opinions of religions and countries on how well their women and children are treated. I do not like the treatment of women in Islamic countries.
GGMaw 8 hours I base my opinions of religions and countries on how well their women and children are treated. I do not like the treatment of women in Islamic countries.
But the treatment of Woman and Children by our own Christian Fundamentalists (loss of jobs, loss of welfare, loss of child care, loss of control over their own bodies, loss of monetary equality, loss of medical coverage for self and family, forced child labor) is Ok? Have you ever looked up the word Hypocritical? I think you’ll find your picture under the definition.
Maher is “equally critical” of all religions? Bullshit he is. He, like Sam Harris, lets Judaism (Israel) off the hook–indeed, he’s an apologist for Israel, and embarrassingly so. You seem as little convinced as anyone of this who bothers to pay attention to current events (a “kernel of truth?” Yep, that’s about it); Israel’s insane acts over the last few years are pretty hard to ignore. When does Maher “take on” O’Reilly?” Certainly not lately–they’re on the same page over this ugly business, and Maher wants to now have a nice sit down with the great Glenn Beck–the right-wing neo-fascist and paranoid rightist. “Left” meets Right, and they agree to agree, and all you fraudulent liberals are cheering these jackasses on. Maybe that asshole who wrote “Liberal Fascism” was right after all, but not in the way he could possibly have imagined.
Most of the countries that support Sharia – Saudi Arabia, Qatar, UAE – are bosom buddies of the US. What tyranny could be without US aid? It has always been, it will always be. In the immortal words of Reverend Jeremiah Wright, not at all God bless America, rather God damn America. 4% of the world’s population are not only not its masters, but rather the savagers of the other 96%. Where’s the democracy here? Or am I missing something? Praised be the coming collapse.
Art Glick: I don’t live in Saudi Arabia, Art, I live in these United States. Misogyny is alive and well here — rape culture thrives, radical feminists cannot say they think men do not belong in women’s bathrooms without receiving death and rape threats, we do not have an Equal Rights Amendment, even something as simple as going to the doctor is very different for women than it is for men.
As there are climate change deniers and climate change minimizers, so there are misogyny deniers and misogyny minimizers. Let’s stop putting all misogyny at the door of religious freaks; there are plenty of nonreligious, even atheist, males who stink of male privilege and entitlement.
Some of those commenting here seriously need to actually read the Sana Saeed article linked above.
I love FAIR but they are way off here. Great rebuttal to the rant against Maher’s “Islamophobia” here:
http://www.salon.com/2014/10/08/bill_mahers_atheist_values_why_progressives_must_defend_enlightenment_critique_religious_extremism/?utm_source=facebook&utm_medium=socialflow
I don’t see how you can possibly equate the two, or somehow justify the misogyny committed over there because of the misogyny that exists on our own shores.
Who says that we are justifying it? Your the one justifying the poor treatment over here, saying that we are so much better.
“”You go to jail (in most cases) if you hit your wife here in the U.S. Certain theocratic states actually sanction much worse treatment of women, including murder (ever hear of honor killings? isn’t it only women that are murdered?).””
Also you can go to Jail in many Muslim Countries for simply looking at a female. Hows that for protection?
And yet, women are still put into prison here because they defend themselves against Rapists and Men who have abused them for years. Certain states in the U.S. allow you to beat your Children and Wife, calling it the “spare not the rod”. We have senators who are fighting to take away woman’s clinics ‘because the woman’s body has a way of shutting down any legitimate Rape’, you have a female Senator who uses her husbands decisions ‘because God says that all woman must be subjugated to their man’. In Texas a senator was treated like a dog because she stood up for woman’s rights, while the Male counterpart was treated like a king yet both did the same thing, filibustered.
Sorry, but the old “I only did a little, But he did a lot” ain’t flying here. Hypocrisy is Hypocrisy.
When women can wear a mini-skirt and not be raped and not be told by the police and the Courts that “she is slut because she wore a mini-skirt”, When they can advocate for poor females on birth control issues and not be called a Slut by some Fat-ass M.F.’r on the “uber-richt Radio Channel”, when they don’t have to fight to have birth control to be in charge of their own body because a bunch of Inept, inbred Christian morons ‘don’t think it’s right’ but the same inbred, dipsticks will support every program designed to make a man ‘fertile’ and have dozens of children with every woman he screws “because that is ok”, when She doesn’t have go to court to have a rapists baby removed because narrow minded little twits think “its GOD gift to her”, when she can stand beside any man and not have to kowtow and kiss up or do twice the amount of work to be considered half as good (which as my sisters tell me isn’t that hard), then and only then will I say that we are starting to treat our woman with the respect they deserve and are not institutionalizing our own Misogyny; then and only then can you worry about the mote in your brothers eye without being the hypocrite that your are now.
My daughters wore miniskirts (when they were younger), and they never got raped. So the world for which you long has really come to pass!
You make it sound so bad for women in the U.S. My daughters would disagree. I’m sorry that your life has been so difficult. Please don’t think that everyone else has had it that bad here in the U.S.
Typical American Idiot – “I didn’t see it happen, so everyone is just making it up”. Really and we are now supposed to take you seriously? And that justifies the condemnation of entire group of people, calling for their slaughter and oppression, just because you had daughter who wore a mini-skirt and didn’t get raped. That means that all the thousands of women to whom it happens on regular basis are just lying sluts right, bet it’s all a made up story that is just here to “hurt you poor innocent people who are trying hard to be good”.
” ” We’ve come a really long way from the days when sexual harassment in the workplace was commonplace or a husband could always get away with smacking around his wife.””
Guess again, sexual harassment is still common in the workplace and still being institutionalized by the leaders, and if there were no places where a man “could get away with smacking his wife around” there would be no need for the thousands of “Safe houses” all over the U.S.
So sorry, you can not claim ‘I only do it a little, therefore I am not guilty’. Your still a hypocrite and your still picking and choosing ‘who is evil’ based on your limited experiences in the world. And in doing so, your supporting the institutionalized racism that is being practiced now.
And stop trying to be condescending, it just shows that you’ve turned a blind eye to the issues and purposeful ignoring them. Condemn the actions of the few, not the multitude. Every time you defend the likes Maher and the rest, you condemn thousands of loyal Americans who have come here to get away from those lands they were born in, and keep in place the harassment and discrimination and outright criminal actions taken against them because of their ‘religion’.