Before the first presidential debate, CNN sent out a press release to promote the idea that they'd be doing factchecking of Barack Obama and Mitt Romney. It's kind of sad that this would be considered a novel enough idea to warrant a press release, but the actual factchecking was nothing you'd want to call attention to.
Anchor Wolf Blitzer cued up the night's first "reality check" from correspondent John Berman, "on the president's claim that Mitt Romney wants a $5 trillion tax cut."
And here comes Berman's factcheck:
Now let's look at the facts here. Mitt Romney does propose across-the-board 20 percent tax cuts. The nonpartisan Tax Policy Center says under that plan, taxes on the wealthiest Americans would be reduced by $5 trillion initially.
Romney said he would offset that by closing loopholes and reducing reductions. So if you take him at his word, our verdict that Mitt Romney would cut taxes by $5 trillion, the verdict here is false.
Huh. So Romney wants a tax cut that would amount to $5 trillion. But since he has an unspecified plan to make up that amount by closing loopholes and deductions–which is, according to an array of critics, mathematically impossible without raising taxes on the middle class–Obama's claim is false.
That's a strange way to do a factcheck. If you take Romney "at his word," even though he hasn't really explained how his plan would work, then he must be right.
Foreman's next item only makes matters more confusing: "Mitt Romney claims that, even with these tax cuts, he will not add to the deficit."
This is, of course, directly related to what Obama just talked about. So what does Berman say?
Want to look at the facts here again. Mitt Romney has not laid out specifics for how he would pay for his tax cut. He says it's by reducing deductions and closing loopholes, but he hasn't said which or how many. So the verdict here is simply incomplete. We just don't know, Wolf.
Make sense? Obama says Romney's $5 trillion tax cut is a $5 trillion tax cut. That claim is deemed false, because we're to take Romney "at his word" that he will make up for the lost revenue by eliminating deductions without raising taxes on the middle class. When Romney won't say which $5 trillion in loopholes he could possibly eliminate that won't raise middle-class taxes–because, experts say, such loopholes don't exist–that deception gets an "incomplete."
"Incomplete" would be much too generous a description for this kind of factchecking. In all fairness, Berman and CNN deserve to be awarded four flaming pinocchios.


[...] Article from http://www.fair.org/blog/2012/10/05/when-did-checking-the-facts-become-taking-a-candidate-at-his-wor…When Did Checking the Facts Become Taking a Candidate 'at His [...]
Said it once, will say it again; this is nothing more than the Minitrue spouting the same Insoc Black/white. They just take what he says, and if he says 'The enemy did this…" then it is black and horrible, and all things disgusting, and is he sayd 'Our side did this…." then it's purest white, and angels are singing hosannas about him.
I think we are seeing why someone who truly believes in the B.S. spouted by the religions is not someone we want in charge. This man will say whatever he needs, with no compunction or remorse. Might as well ask him why the Sky is green with stripes because the answer will be nothing but BS and outright lies.
I didn't think we would ever find another human being, at that level in society that could be that void of morals.
Are you suggesting that we should support Obama because he is lying when he claims to be a Christian?
Are you suggesting that we should support Obama because he is lying when he claims to be a Christian? – Shane Mac
Explain please? what your saying is making zero sense.
On the other hand there is something we do need to hold Obama accountable for; I was not happy about the Surges, the delays in leaving Iraq, the drones, and lots of other things in similar vain, er Vein. I don't know that I will vote for him, but I have to look around and see who else in the actual race. BTW can you name more than 3 "Parties" in this race? And the Tea Party is a freebie.
However, when so far the person has said in front of millions on TV "I did this" or "I did not do that" and it's shown in short order that the statement is simply false no matter how you slice it, this is a problem. We do not need some one with the morals of used-car salesman, let alone a politician who has not a care in the world for people who are not his, unless they are rich. Those types have their times and places, but this is not them right now.
As a citizen he has his rights to be a dickhead as long as he not doing something illegal. As for morals he has to live with his God for what he is doing, but that is "between him and his maker". But don't expect me to believe for one second that he really believes in the 100%; his off the cuff remark tells us more than anything else. That is the real Romney and under pressure he forgets and spews. Just like the last one.
And when he makes a claim that is about the economy thats patent bull-shipping we supposed to "In him we Trust"? I think not! The last one we 'trusted' who was a God Fearing conservative (apparently not enough for him NOT to hand over some 400 million in surplus to his friends and put the American people in debt that wipes out the economy) said the same thing, we are still paying for the wars out of the middle class pocket, while the folks like him get even richer off our money.
The really sad note to all this is that Originally Bush was supposed to win, he was just the cannon fodder because too many people thought Al was a shoo-in. I really hope to whatever demented god there is, that this we do not repeat that mistake in history.
I believe the article says one needs to clearly define a "fact", set up a criteria & procedure for valid factchecking. It questions that accepting a candidate's statement a priori as a "fact" is a valid form of factchecking. The fact only may be the statement was made and have little to do with its content. The above example is similar to bogus surveys & statistics, which fail the tests of reliability, validity, etc. but are commonly reported as "facts" in today's media
If Romney cannot list at least his 5 top "loopholes", then he is a liar. If he names his loopholes, and then do not even come close to offsetting his "20% across the board" tax cut, then he is a liar. If you are making a relatively small amout of income, losing these "loopholes" will hurt you a lot more than it will a wealthy person who has a lot more write-offs and ways to hide income. Bush promised everyone that the wealthy would pay more under his tax cuts, and this is absolutely a lie. Unless you want to be kind and say that he was just wrong. Romney says his medical plan still supports pre-existing conditions exemption, but he is leaving things as the law states right now. You are safe if you are continuously insured. So, lose your job and eventually you will lose your insurance. If yoy have a pre-existing condition, you are dead meat. That was the whole point. Romney is a skank for trying to slide that one by. The republicans has a century to pass real medical care, but they always "need more time to study it". Watch FDR on Youtube. His speech from 1936 sounds like it was given yesterday. What Romney and Ryan want is to have the insurance companies take over Medicare, and Wall Street take over your Social Security. It will be a cold day in hell before these clowns get to rip us off again. Romney is against Wall Reform? So, a few years ago they almost destroyed democracy and this little slap on the wrist is too much for them? A couple thousand of these clowns should be in jail. How about no more leveraged buy outs, no hedge funds and no short selling? You want to gamble, go to Vegas. Reinstate Glass-Stegall. Go back to companies funding their own ratings, instead of Goldman-Sachs waving millions of dollars at the rating agencies and winking at them to get the answers they want. If you cannot make money honestly, then you are an crook. Cutting off PBS is a joke. For a guy to claim he is a "pioneer of outsourcing" after what has been happening to this country for the past twenty years is criminal. Romney should get three votes: himself, his wife and Ryan. That's it. Wake up America.
@ for Jonathan Lori, you are 100 precent correct. I just hope the majority of the people understand that. One thing we do know, is that character counts, and anyone that can lie like Romney has a real character flaw. @ As for Shane Mage, you really can't have the Rev. Wright hit piece, and then the Birther and Muslim hit pieces at the same time. Pick you posion, I think it might be called hatred of the Black Man, who just happens to be our pesent and future president–in spite of you and your ilk.
Can we see a list of people who are not Christians, with documented written proof, for each person, that these people are not Christians? Is President Obama's name on this written documented list? Thank you.
@John: I know I shouldn't be asking, but – WHAT? Why are you asking about "documented written proof" of people's Christianity? Do you want every person in the world? What kind of documentation do you need? Church membership roles? Baptism or Confirmation records? Just clips of them claiming to be Christians in public? And what difference does it make anyway?
Read Robert Reichs book called the Republican Mythology…This is EXACTLY the same way the Reagan and the Bushes were elected…. and it works because the MSM is in on The Big Con…read that book, it is clearly documented that the MSM is the Tool of the Plutocracy.
Actually, when it comes to RepublicOns, "fact checking" should be referred to as
"lie checking" and NOT "fact checking" cuz lies are the only thing RepublicOns have to
run on. Sure, Democrats tell some lies but good Gawd, the RepublicOn Party should just change their moniker to "The Party Of Liars And Deceivers!' Please make note of it!
The prime RepublicOn mantra is "You can fool some of the people part of the time, and some of the people ALL of time, and that's enough to make a decent living!"
…and The Ferengi from Star Trek had to be based on RepublicOnism/Conservatism and rules of acquisition!
Ferengi/RepublicOn Rule of Aquisition #60: Keep Your Lies Consistent!
[one of the most difficult rules for a RepublicOn to follow since they can't possibly keep track of all of their lies!]
Ferengi/RepublicOn Rule of Aquisition #266: When In Doubt, LIE!
(see bracketed sub-note under "Ferengi/RepublicOn Rule of Aquisition #60" above!)
RepublicOn shepherds like the Abramoff Crime Syndicate called actually called their many teabagged/teagagged minions "Wacko," and Bush White House advisers called the minions "nuts and goofy" and these "Wacko, Nuts and Goofy" wingnuts still rush right out and vote for these goons, goons that actually admit to manipulating (teabagging?) their conned conservative constituency!
Getting people to vote in their own worst interests is the specialty of the RepublicOn Party. All you have to do it just keep repeating the same lie over and over again and over again and the "Wacko, Nuts and Goofy" set will vote for you!
I'm just sayin'…
Identifying christians can be done… simply make church attendance compulsory, Anyone not attending every day is then shunned, ostracised or declared outlaw. Might need an airport porno scanner to make sure all are wearing their magic underwear but citizens already put up with it when they want to travel so they won't mind.
The question is simply "How can a candidate lie his way through a debate for 90 minutes, and still have actual followers?"
Romney and the GOP are the party of the Big Lie: tell a lie Big enough, Often enough, and with emphasis, and pretty soon, people will believe it! Now, where was the Big Lie perfected, back in WWII? Oops, too much truth?
Romney has now demonstrated, completely, that he will say anything, do anything, to get elected. If you don't like his position on anything, wait until his next pronouncement; his position has now changed.
CNN has become the most ridiculed name in news, even more than Fox, because they are trying to outfox Fox, and it doesn't work. And besides, Fox doesn't deal in news so they're being ridiculed for being ridiculous.
There is room for only one dingbat on the airwaves and Fox has that niche all wrapped up, so everyone else should go back to trying to be the reincarnation of Edward R. Murrow and Walter Cronkite. The country would be infinitely better off.
Good God. Watching Fox, CNN et al and I feel like I'm not only reading the hot shots in Tom Tomorrow, they're out there live and they really believe the BS they are saying!
Idiots.Mitt never asked for a 5 trillion dollar tax cut.Obama said that 3 times, and 3 times Mitt corrected him.Finally Obama backed off that massive lie.Do you realize how stupid you sound?Calling a candidate a liar while you are forced to back Barrack Obama for another 4 years of this misery?Let me in on a little secret.We on the right don't believe Obama or Pelosi,and the rest of them have ever told the truth…..ON ANYTHING!So to hear you try to pin this or that "lie" on Mitt is hysterically funny to us.
To Alex Howard I must ask…..How far down does this country have to sink before you simply say that Obama sucks?Rush Limbaugh must be psychic or have bugs in the Dem game room.A week before the debate he said that when Mitt hands the hapless Obama his ass -people will have to come up for a reason how it happened.After all lord Obama and the brilliant elite left can't be wrong or bested by a dumb ass Republican can they?..Rush said they will call Mitt a liar.A bully.Everything you are saying today.He said it is Because you just cant conceive that you may be wrong.You cant see that the state of this country cant be fobbed of anymore on anyone other than this president.You asked the question "How can a candidate lie through a ninety minute debate and still have followers"Here is my question……How can a candidate run for president without one single qualification…win…..Fail for four years while lying about everything,and still have even one follower?
michael e…you give the wonderful name of "michael" a bad rap!
Oopsy! Lil' Mittens tax cut is only 4.8 trillion dollars and not 5 trillion dollars.
GoL–OL–Y, you sure got President Obama on that one. ZING!
Dude, seriously, the four years of misery just dropped outta the sky in 2007 in
the form of a "Great Recession," a "Great Recession" that Republicans started and then wanted fixed barely a week after Obama assumed the office of The Presidency! The Republicans have blocked just about every jobs bill, or any other bill offered up to fix our
ailing economy simply to defeat President Obama, just ask Snitch McConnell, he'll tell you! They've taken obstructionism to a level never before seen by man………..OR GOD! Please make note of it!
The only crap you believe spews forth from the mouth of the OXYviagraCLOWN that you bums worship. Oh, did I leave out FauxNews (fixed news), CNSnooze, worldNUTdaily, newsmacks, glen sBeck, Sean Hammity, badbluesimpletons.com ad nauseum? Oopsy again! My bad!
The only failure is YOUR failure to realize you've been hornswaggled, bamboozled, flimflammed and totally fooled by the GOP Joesph Goebbels syndicate that relies on people like you to open wide and gobble the pabulum spoon fed to YOU and those of the right that will believe anything these hacks serve up on a plate.
And what was the dead give away you may ask? Well, one mention of the OXYviagraCLOWN, and everybody with a fully functioning brain that's capable of thinking for themselves rather than letting a trash talking clown like the OXYviagraCLOWN do their thinking for them…that was "the dead give away!"
Dude, he's an entertainer entertaining people that actually think/believes him to be a newsman and/or journalist, you know, people like you, when, in fact, he's NOTHING BUT AN ENTERTAINER entertaining those that seek 'news to fit their views' rather than reality based news. The cigar toking fat boy is the master of making irresponsible, ridiculous and controversial statements in an effort to simply get people to listen to him so he can make even more money flimflamming unsuspecting right wingers, but I suspect, deep down in that cerebral cortex, once you get passed the gobbledygook deposited there by the propaganda arms of the GOP, you really know that! )
The state of the country was precipitated by the Republican Party, the party of liars and political hacks that suck up to the uber-rich as if they're Gods to be worshiped and coddled. They started two wars and didn't want to pay for them. They gave us a prescription drug program…UNPAID FOR, OF COURSE. They gave trillions in tax cuts away to the rich…AGAIN, UNPAID FOR, and then they blocked every attempt to pay for what they wrought on America! They never seen a spending bill they didn't like until '06 when the Democrats grabbed Congress, then it was all back to their empty "idiotology" of
fiscal discipline, discipline they really never have unless a democrat is in office!
Hey, tell me, why does a freakin' guy with billions in the bank need a tax cut for any damn way. I'm still waiting for an answer to that one. In 10 years the only answer I've gotton from you Joseph Goebbels inspired bums is "billionaires need tax cuts too!" lmao! I kid you not, I've asked that question on blogs and message boards like this a hundred times and that's the only answer I've ever received simply because there really is no reason, other than greed, for a billionaire to get a tax cut.
Now, tell me how the OXYviagraCLOWN told you different, blamed everything on Bill Clinton until President Obama took office and then immediately blamed everything on
him while leaving out the miserable jester from Crawford, TX that dumped this entire
mess/load in President Obama's lap. (Hint: the jesters name was George W. Bush! Remember him? Oopsy again, guess not!)
I'm just sayin'….
[...] factcheckers seem willing to give them an "incomplete" grade, as CNN's Tom Foreman did after the first debate. If that's going to be the response, why should the Romney campaign [...]
[...] seem willing to give them an "incomplete" grade, as CNN's Tom Foreman did after the first debate. If that's going to be the response, why should the Romney campaign [...]
So how is it that Obama could go to bed for a good night's rest knowing that Americans in Benghazi would be slaughtered for his political gain? What a man! How do you still vote for this low life?