Writing in Newsweek, Peter Beinart has a pretty good idea:
America’s foreign-policy debate desperately needs some measure of accountability. I’m not suggesting that politicians and pundits who got Iraq wrong be banished from public life. (This standard would leave me looking for other work.) But neither should they be able to flee the scene of the disaster. Imagine if every time Joe Biden or Hillary Clinton or John Bolton or John McCain or William Kristol was interviewed about military intervention in Iran or Syria, the interviewer began by asking what they’ve learned about the subject from their experience supporting the war in Iraq. Simply asking the question would inject a much-needed humility into our foreign-policy discussion. Asking might also make viewers wonder why they so rarely hear from experts who did not support one of the greatest disasters in the history of American foreign policy.
Interestingly, a few pages away was Howard Kurtz‘s profile of John McCain, which recycled one of the most familiar McCain tropes of them all–the idea that McCain is especially wise on foreign policy:
McCain’s greatest strength is as a leader on foreign affairs, Schmidt says, but that is the issue on which his differences with Romney may be the starkest. “He has not got a lot of instincts on some of these national security issues, but he has the right instincts,” McCain says. Yet the candidate rarely brings up the muddled mess in Afghanistan; nor has he embraced McCain’s call for U.S. airstrikes to support the rebels in Syria. “We all know it’s not popular, including with the Ron Paul wing of our party,” McCain admits.
The Schmidt Kurtz is referring to is former McCain campaign adviser Steve Schmidt. But clearly Kurtz thinks there’s something to this, and he’s not alone. As I wrote in Extra! Update (4/08), this was the prevailing sentiment in the 2008 race:
The conventional wisdom is that McCain simply has a built-in advantage on military matters. As NBC anchor Brian Williams put it to the Democratic contenders at a February 26 debate, one of them would be running against “a Republican with vast foreign policy expertise and credibility on national security.” The New York Times (3/5/08) similarly called McCain a “national security pro.”
I think what reporters mean is that John McCain is quoted a lot by other reporters talking about military interventions, invasions, bombings and the like. That shouldn’t be confused with expertise, though. In fact, as I recalled earlier today, McCain’s record on Iraq was terrible–he predicted a quick victory, and then criticized others for predicting a quick victory. (What a maverick!) McCain consistently advocates for more violent and dangerous levels of American military attacks. And yet, somehow, this doesn’t affect his standing with the corporate media.
Beinart’s right, of course–in the sense that a minimal level of accountability should be part of any decent media system. But the treatment of people like John McCain tells us this will probably never happen.
Imagine if the people who got the stories right in the past were required to be a part of any broadcast discussion of those and related issues in the present.
Imagine discussions being not between right and left, but between fact and fiction.
The “right” and “wrong” in this discussion have nothing to do with morality, only with how well things went for the perpetrators.
I have to conclude that going by the latter context, if the invasions and occupations had gone according to plan, folks like Beinart would be copasetic with the outcomes, regardless of what that meant for the people of those countries.
It’s the most salient definition of the Vietnam Syndrome …
A war’s worth is calculated by how it impacts its prosecutor
Not its victims
All media pundits that got it wrong peddling their prejudices on Iraq and Afghanistan, must be exposed and ostracised in the media. They should be first made accountable to their past record, when interviewed and only in the light of their mistaken analysis, their current views on Iran and Syria should be judged.
John McCain is so savvy on foreign and military affairs he pushed to arm Qadhafi in 2009. His own version on Fast and Furious?
I alway wonder that if those who believed our involvement in Iraq and Afghanistan was wrong headed ,and a disaster, are really saying they wish that Saddam and Osama were back at the helm?And if not…..what are they saying?Or is it that they generally think things are far better than they were….they just believe it could of been achieved in a different way?And what way is that?Or are they saying their removal was not worth the loss?Seems like a hell of a lot of Monday morning quarterbacking.We moved to remove two vicious men.We did it.The world is a better place for it.We moved to remove Hitler.We did it.The world is a better place for it.Was the loss worth it?To me this is just more from the same crowd that believes retreat defeat and surrender is a noble cause.And that nothing is worth fighting for because America with all her warts has no right….. or enough intelligence to ever make the call when to intervene on the side of freedom and justice.The same people who literally HATE and blame America first.
I love it when people like “michael e” rewrite or forget history and relate the occupation of Iraq to removing a evil dictator. Funny thing is, I remember that the primary reason we were given for the unprovoked attack on Iraq was the WMD’s that Saddam was supposed to be stockpiling. Too bad there weren’t any… just like the weapon inspectors told us at the time. But let’s just forget about that, and the tens of thousand civilians killed in the attacks, and retroactively change the reason to “removing an evil man from power” so that what we did doesn’t look so bad.
Isn’t that the type of “accountability”, or lack thereof, that this article is talking about?
That’s quite a tirade there, Dave Francis.
When you learn how to compose a sentence using, ya know, verbs, you might garner a little more respect.
Hey Dave F – – – where can I get a copy of that “…Obama Socialist-Marxist agenda” you wrote of?? Cause I’m partial to that, but I’m having trouble seeing ANYTHING like that from Obama, and it sounds like you have the inside dope!? Lucky me to stumble onto you like that… I look forward to hearing from you comrade.
Is it just me?
I always enjoy looking at michael e’s posts. I don’t try to read them anymore, but I find in them, as my eyes glance past them, some strange almost primitive attraction, tempting me to bring them from the periphery of my vision to its very focus, as if a Rorschach test were calling to me, begging for consideration and yet failing, as if I were watching a beetle in a jar unable to get a foothold on the sheer glass wall of its enclosure.
I see in his posts a monument to the tenacity of the human spirit, the force of sheer will in the face of some unseen obstacle he appears to be trying to overcome, to say whatever it is he’s trying to say, with his inimitable style and unbounded relentless energy.
You go guy.
Never, never give up.
Ed” O
You say things like “the primary reason for our re starting the gulf conflict with Iraq was WMDs.”That may be a good soundbite for weak minds or politicians pandering to weak minds.But WMDs were only one reason for the resumption.One out of many.On his deathbed Saddam admitted to lying about WMDs.He admitted that he planned to fully re-arm in any way he saw fit, in violation of all accords and surrender documents.He had no intention of listening to anyone.He had all ready broken every caveat of his surrender terms(which according to those terms any one of which must lead to an immediate resumption).His shutting the door on WMD inspections was the LAST STRAW.Nothing more.It helped to sell the war.But Bush and most of the world believed they were there.And with Saddam lying his ass off it was an honest mistake.The question stands………is it better now ,or before our invasion?
Glenn i loved what you just wrote about me(very good stylistically by the way).In a way you are right.On this sight i am the” Beatle”climbing the glass.The glass being the smooth template of the liberal position.Without deviation.Thick smokey glass.Im the one trying to find a nick to grab hold of.To climb out of their little echo chamber,breath fresh air and get on with the other “Beatles”who are living life out of glass houses.Its a hard climb.Most libs move in complete lockstep.Angry,negative,disempowered.The want an empowered, ever growing Fed that can enforce collective rights over personal freedoms..A redistribution of wealth away from those who have created it, to those who have not.Pay your fair share being step one, in a ten step plan to confiscate all wealth,and ownership rights.For the good of us all of course.Well Im just one conservative “Beatle” out of a hundred and fifty million.In November we will be dropping our single.Hello Goodbye!You say hello ….and I say goodbye.Goodbye to this liberal quicksand.
Starting with “Pay your fair share being step one, (no comma) in a ten (hyphen) step plan to confiscate all wealth, (no comma, space) and ownership rights. (space),” michael e winds up in typical fashion: unfounded paranoid suspicions followed by made-up data followed by incomprehensible gibberish. Why do I keep feeding the FAIR Troll? Why does anybody? Why, why, why?
Driving home from work one evening, caught in crawling traffic, I wondered what might be causing this interminable slowdown. I passed the time, as I always did, listening to the radio, waiting for the unseen obstruction ahead to make itself known. Seeing the cars a few hundred feet ahead picking up the pace, at last I began to make the more usual rate of progress toward my home.
On the side of the road was a dead or wounded pigeon, it seems, that demanded the attention of hundreds of passing motorists. No one cared enough to stop, to give aid, or remove the pigeon, but we all held our places in the line of traffic until every curiosity was satisfied—or disappointed—as the case may be.
As I drove away from the spectacle on the side of the road, I smiled, while the radio played my favorite Beatle song, drowning out the road noise.
I knew the rest of my evening would be just fine.
Echo
You are not ….please tell me you are not doing the thing conservative radio stations always make fun of you libs for.When you have nothing to say- you invariably resort to correcting someones English/grammar/punctuation etc. And beg people to shun the offender who has the temerity to have an opposite opinion from the liberal template.You do realize some of the top journalism schools have dropped spelling as a grade indicator.Punctuation also can be tapped in on the computer.Your acting like an elitist snotty little minded dinosaur.Does it bother you that Im not in school anymore,and simply don’t give a damn?No I proofread nothing I write to you lot.If I have a minute, I spit it out.Your dumb as wood president actually formulated, and had experts write that “you didnt build it speech”.Imagine the rank stupidity involved in that.Ever see a Doctors handwriting?
Echo
You annoy me because I hate this elitist crap from your side.Lay it out there .Where were you schooled that gives you the right of way over the other half of America that sees things differently? My experience was a small Private grade school with Notre dame nuns.Strict Franciscan brothers through high school.Where latin was damn near a second language.U of P…Columbia and Harvard.I have aced them all.Tell me echo my little genius…… why again is your OPINION worth listening to ,while mine is not?I respect your opinion.You should learn to do the same.
Good point echo, why do we feed the troll? Or better yet, why is the troll here in the first place if he doesn’t agree with any of the opinions, or believe the document facts, as presented to him by FAIR.org? There are plenty of other website chocked full of misinformation; I bet he even knows quite of few of them…
Ed O
A long time ago i ran into FAIR.A sight dedicated to showing any vestige of right leaning thought(in the press), to be in a word…….wrong.I saw a host of lemmings believing that this was all there was.One thought.One speak.One nation under liberal dominion.Follow the bouncing ball…down a rat hole.So I threw my two cents in.Simply saying that a lot of people feel otherwise.To FAIRS credit they let me do that unencumbered(.More than any of you would do.)
Ed there are a lot of people you are going to have to ignore come November.Enough to hand Obama his walking papers.You had your shot.Liberalism and Keneysian economics,with a huge dash of class warfare, divisiveness and anti American propoganda.All you ever could dream of.And it came to nought.A complete unmitigated disaster.Have enough grace to step aside and give the other guy his chance at bat.Things will turn around quick.Then you can say the development of all this wealth is a bad thing.Because wherever there is a looser….a person who did not make it.There you will be.Blaming those who did.Thats your game.And soon it will be Game Over!
Thanks, Ed O. A final observation: The FAIR Troll always claims that unlike his detractors (dozens of them so far) he respects their opinions. Just above he says it — yet again — in the same comment where he calls me an elitist snotty little minded dinosaur. A while back he claimed he respected my opinion after calling me a bastard. He not only doesn’t know what he’s talking about, he doesn’t even know what he has said.
Those of you who have the fortitude to read michael e’s offerings are obliged to write back, addressing not him but the invisible audience: the readers who have similar difficulty distinguishing history and current events from fantasy, immersed as we all are in the smoke and mirrors of our corporate faux media.
Some among them will not be calcified in their views, and may be encouraged to turn toward the light.
The basic arguments here are generally between good and evil, truth and falsity, and it is exhausting to see evil and untruth defended with regularity. I have only enough strength left to use the little arrow that allows the weary to speed past michael e’s un-paragraphs.
“If ignorance is bliss, why are the ignorant so angry?”
Shannon Wheeler cartoon caption
As I recall from school, teachers disapproved of too many wrong answers.
It must be different in Journalism school.
Hi,
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Cass I have to say I am impressed you used the words evil and good.In the biblical sense I would say it is devoid on these blogs.Don’t believe I am angry….Though the destruction of this country is a lot to be angry about.I am like a lot of my tea party friends; brimming over with excitement at how fast we can turn this mess around.Obama and his ilk want to accept a smaller and less America(the new reality).We want to guarantee a bigger and better country. The anger…the divisiveness,the art of personal attack…that is a lib game.We will try to run an election based on the economy devoid of that stuff.On Obamas record.That is what matters.If he has done a good job, and has a good plan then he should win.If not- he is out.As far as the corporate faux media…..You all spend to much time in the belief of that hob goblin.Your fighting windmills.
Echo……..Dozens of detractors?Lets be honest.On this sight of single minded lemmings….. EVERYONE is my detractor.I represent alone here in some small way that huge and growing mass that will soon send Obama home.That mass you would believe are uneducated.Stupid.Brainwashed.Greedy.Or rich and evil.But Im cut from a different cloth.Hard for you to hit.Im educated in the halls of your liberal God schools.I would put my education and grades against Obama any day.I Worked for Bill Clinton.I personally know many of you Dem leaders.And converse with them.Some of my closest friends and family are liberal.All the things that you believe would make me a little elitist snob who would believe the liberal clap trap.But i dont.I know it is all a scam.From the inside- AND the outside.So when I see that crap pour forth here I do yell foul.If I called you a bastard I do apologize.And I do respect your opinions.I need not agree with them.