Bombing Iran could be a real strain for Israel, reports Elisabeth Bumiller in the New York Times (“Iran Raid Seen as a Huge Task for Israeli Jets,” 2/19/12). No one’s sure they can pull it off, what with the logistics involved:
Should Israel decide to launch a strike on Iran, its pilots would have to fly more than 1,000 miles across unfriendly airspace, refuel in the air en route, fight off Iran’s air defenses, attack multiple underground sites simultaneously–and use at least 100 planes.
Everyone apparently agrees on the task in front of Israel, as Bumiller puts it: “Given that Israel would want to strike Iran’s four major nuclear sites….” Killing Iranians and spreading radioactive material over their countryside isn’t an issue for the Times, where Iran seems to exist only as an obstacle to Israeli strategic interests.
But, Bumiller reports, the job could exceed Israel’s offensive capabilities, raising the question of whether the U.S. might be “sucked into finishing the job.” A job she’s not altogether unexcited about:
Should the United States get involved–or decide to strike on its own–military analysts said that the Pentagon had the ability to launch big strikes with bombers, stealth aircraft and cruise missiles, followed up by drones that could carry out damage assessments to help direct further strikes. Unlike Israel, the United States has plenty of refueling capability. Bombers could fly from Al Udeid air base in Qatar, Diego Garcia in the Indian Ocean or bases in Britain and the United States.
Perhaps the most telling line in Bumiller’s cold, skewed accounting of the potential risks of an attack on Iran is in her peculiar notion of what would constitute a state of war:
Iran could also strike back with missiles that could hit Israel, opening a new war in the Middle East, though some Israeli officials have argued that the consequences would be worse if Iran were to gain a nuclear weapon.
War would ensue the instant Iran responded to being bombed? This is not only bizarre wording, it ignores the low-intensity war that has been waged against Iran over the past few years, including explosions at nuclear facilities, the assassination of its scientists and the arming of insurgent groups in Iran’s border areas.
There’s nothing the corpress revels in more that earnest speculation over the best way to kill “the enemy”, is there?
It’s like foreplay, precedent to the orgasm of war coverage that’s there fondest wet dream.
Ya, you gotta love the idiots on the news desk…
If we attack someone, it’s ok. If they attack back, then it’s war. And they wonder why the Iranians want to pursue Weapons of Self Defense.
It’s all just video-games to a lot of people – – – the logistics of killing & destruction absorb & entertain them no-end. Oh sure, once in a while they’ll toss in a throw-away line about ethics or morality, but then it’s back to planning the best ways to ‘get the job done’… The only thing that’s slightly different about this particular article is it’s a woman expressing it. Most often it’s men who revel in this kind of activity, but the ‘reptilian brain’ in mama crocodile isn’t much less lethal than daddy croc I suspect.
I STILL have a sense of surrealness, a disconnect over the utter deliberateness with which all these machinations of war are being done. They’re not happening in some secret rooms somewhere, but virtually out in the open…
Pity, several Israel-Firsters have decided not to let American die for Israeli wars. The latest one is Gen. Martin Dempsey, who is being called “Servant of Iran” by Israeli leaders and their American poodles.
http://rehmat1.wordpress.com/2012/02/23/bibi-gen-dempsey-is-servant-of-iran/
One item missed in your details of this Cold War action is the first use of Hacking as a pre-emptive strike: last year, networks & computers in Iran’s Nuclear R&D facilities were systematically hacked and attacked by someone with MAJOR resources.
But nobody knows who did it…..except, perhaps the NSA & CIA, and I suspect they won’t talk about it. They used the relatively public knowledge of the attack to put forth the argument that such cyber-attacks qualified as a declaration of war.
Irony?
Unless I am very mistaken I don’t think any of this will happen.Iran has moved a lot of their sites into population centers and underground.Strategically this makes it a tough nut.I have always thought that the best way to get a more sane Iran is simply regime change.I think our threats and Israel’s are part of a concerted effort to force Iran to some sort of bargaining table,or their people to a realization.Most people don’t know or ever see that along the main roadways of Tehran are huge signs announcing the coming destruction of Israel.Irans lead nuclear physicist just died this past week.His wife fled and has now released a statement that his life was dedicated to building a bomb to be used against Israel.So most people dont hear this stuff…..Israel does.
Iran has recently stopped accepting US dollars for oil.Gold only.This is a currency war.She has threatened to block the straits of hormuz resulting in the raise in world oil prices.So Iran is not a bit player.
This all at a time when the oil we turned down from Canada will be purchased by China.Obama has fought development across the board.Iran’s best way forward is through peaceful co-existance without threats.Don’t count on it.
Let Canada export its filthy tar sands oil to China because that’s where it’s going anyway. The Keystone XL pipeline is nothing more than a 1700 mile long export pipe, going through the agricultural heartland of America, on its way to the ports of Texas from where it will be exported to energy hungry China.
The decision on the Keystone pipeline is not final. The president wants the impacts of it to be studied, a very wise decision considering that so many existing businesses, industries and residential users depend on the water resources and agricultural resources from the area where the pipeline could very well be positioned.
Some Americans seem to think they have a birthright to $2 a gallon oil, no matter how far we have to go to rip up this country to get it.
Well Michael e, the US was already responsible for two regime changes in Iran. First in 1953 then what happened because of it in 1979. The second wouldn’t have happened if the first had not been done. So Just from that alone tells me the US is not better than any other country for mucking up someone else country making it actually worse than it was. An in the 1953 over throw of the moderate nationalist Mossadec it was killing a democratically elected president to put back in a friendly dictator—the Shaw, Reza Palavi.
There is no evidence that the leaders of Iran are “insane” just angry an afraid. Funny how it is the Israelis who are the ones who look insane an dangerous an they do have nukes even though they continue to deny it. But if Iran should get a warhead they couldn’t launch it. An if they could they would finally breath a sigh of relief in that it would hold Israel’s hand. Which is what they want, not to attack Israel which would be national suicide.
Most of that “oil” from Canada would be sold abroad anyway. The Republicans showed they don’t want to make it so that the “oil” would only go to the US. The whole thing is a sham.
Are we reading about the demonstrations against the U.S. in Afghanistan, getting bigger and more violent? Don’t we have our hands full? Another Middle East war will cause catastrophic oil prices which will sink our economic recovery and the world’ and we are already seeing those increases. Iran will defend itself with every tool at its disposal, including attacks on American troops and bases all over the ME, via their proxy armies. It will enrage the Muslim world with calls for more terrorism and jihad against the West.
The U.S.will find itself quite alone,(except for Israel, of course, which might attack and then expect the U.S. to finish the job for them). The hell with that. Israel told us its none of our business if they decide to attack Iran. Therefore, it’s none of our business if they decide to make a first strike.
China & Russia will most likely side with Iran. India has already decided to purchase its oil from Iran despite the U.S. ban. So, once again, we will find ourselves alone, Defender of the Peace of the Planet. Peace can only be achieved through war, for warhawks. War equals peace.
Who is to say that Pakistan won’t put nuclear weapons in the hands of anti-west extremists in revenge against us?
In the meantime, no one says one word about Israel’s possession of nuclear weapons and refusal to have any inspectors in their country.
Night-Gaunt: I agree with your assessment. If Iran is an existential threat to Israel, maybe Israel is an existential threat to Iran.
Iran’s only hope to avoid the coming war would be to somehow buy, beg or borrow a few atomic bombs from China or Russia…Poor old Gadaffi didn’t seem to know this…poor sap…he took Libya from the dark ages to the 21 century but the forces of evil still made him out to be a monster…framed him over Lockerbie…and then hired thousands if goons to rape his land…and himâ┚¬Ã‚¦and then NATO and the Banks finished off the war…and hi de ho…and then let the country destroy itselfâ┚¬Ã‚¦forever. Maybe a thousand missiles all aimed at Israel will slow down the war talk but this coming war wouldn’t be the first time ordinary Jews were sacrificed to create Israelâ┚¬Ã‚¦..think Russia in the 1800’s; Germany in the 1930’sâ┚¬Ã‚¦and 40’sâ┚¬Ã‚¦and I don’t think Israel should trust the USAâ┚¬Ã‚¦or vice versaâ┚¬Ã‚¦There is no honor amongst thieves.
this war is inconceivable.
i wish some countries would make a pact that whoever strikes first gets blasted. maybe that would be some deterrent. they may as well continue on with their sniping at each other for the next 60 years b/c this thing between israel and its neighbors will never be resolved. its like the north going zax versus the south going zax in dr seuss. the rest of the world sd leave them to their own devices, like this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8xDjxhKUh7M&feature=related but the usa has to stick its nose into everything
elaine-
the pak prez said that pak would back iran if it were attacked. so the usa could end up getting its bases hit with the very weapons they supplied to pak. that would truly be karma in action.
The West won the world not by the superiority of its ideas or
values or religion but rather by its superiority in applying
organized violence. *Westerners often forget this fact; non-
Westerners never do.*
i quote acomfort about western violence: *Westerners often forget this fact; non-
Westerners never do.*
this is partially true. some western historians like Victor Davis Hanson, a favorite among american neoconservatives, writes proudly in his book ‘Why The West Has Won. Nine Landmark Battles in the Brutal History of Western Victory’ that the west has won the last five centuries because it is more ruthless, more violent than anyone else. we possessed:
‘the most lethal practice of arms conceivable. Let us hope that we at last understand this legacy. It is a weighty and sometimes ominous heritage that we must neither deny nor feel ashamed about — but insist that our deadly manner of war serves, rather thans buries, our civilization.’
And professor David E. Stannard concludes in his book ‘American Holocaust. The conquest of the new world’:
‘there were the unique horrors of the African slave trade, during the course of which at least 30.000.000 — and possibly as many as 40.000.000 to 60.000.000 — Africans were killed, most of them in the prime of their lives… And… the total extermination of many American Indian peoples and the near-extermination of others, in numbers that eventually totaled close to 100.000.000… For almost half a millennium Christians had been launching hideously destructive holy wars and massive enslavement campaigns against external enemies they viewed as carnal demons and described as infidels… During those same long centuries they had further expressed their ruthless intolerance of all persons and things that were non-Christian by conducting pogroms against the Jews who lived among them and whom they regarded as the embodiment of Antichrist — imposing torture, exile, and mass destruction on those who refused to succumb to evangelical persuasion.’
the moment so called democracies nee lebensraum they will destroy everything which obstructs them.
The basic problem is the rude imposition of the state of Israel when I was a child. I don’t see a resolution until the Palestinians are given back their land and some dignity.
Wow what is the seminal thread among all these blogs?It is Americas fault.America does nothing well.America should simply apologize and go behind a rock and die, along with Israel(and Obama is the right man for that).All these other nations can not be blamed for anything they may do.
On the Tv show BIG BANG THEORY you have a group of nerds who know nothing about the world outside their fields and some of their nerdy hobbies.Here we have a group of smart people who have no idea what it is to be an American.That word that embodies so much good to the world.That word that means so much to immigrants and travelers the world over.You who live here….were born here,have somehow lost the thread.You don’t believe in America anymore.Sad really
Nightgaunt study Iran .Insane I think is a very weak word for their leadership.
Elaine please please stop making relative comments regarding Israel and Iran.Iran threatens Israel on a daily basis with destruction.The main streets of tehran are lined with posters depicting this.You will find NOTHING in Israel like this.Don’t you dare fluff that off.You are the person these people(if they could get their hands on you)would slaughter without a thought, that would be saying “I understand “as they put the knife to you.Soon they will put a man to death for converting to christianity.Tell you what ….you and all your genius bloggers here write to the Iranian embassy .Change their minds on that one.See how far you get.They are nuts people.THINK what they would do to the Jews!
Elaine you have a boatload of reasons why this country should not develop its natural resources.A ton of Insulting jokes to cover Sarah Palin’s “drill baby drill”.Going on four years now of inhibiting and busting the balls of anybody who wanted to do so.Obama is STILL in contempt of court for not signing leases 3 tears old.Four years of government sponsored green technology all now coming to a quick death.What did I(and other conservatives like me)promise you back then.Ever increasing tensions with iran because of our dependance and their constant threats and……higher gas prices across the board.Well well well.Remember the old axiom.The road to hell is paved with liberal good intentions.
Just because Amerikkka is great does not mean that we have had a wonderful, peaceful, loving, history. We are alive now because we are standing on the bodies of the dead. That is always true, and always has been. What really matters is what we are going to do about it in our lifetimes.
*Israel will have to deal with the Palestinians. One way or another, eventually, they will have to deal with them. They cannot do what they are doing now forever, and the new crop of young Israelis coming up are more conservative, more religious, more hateful, and more fascist than the last bunch. They are on the same road as South Africa was, and the longer it goes on, the worse the ending. And it is people like Sheldon Adelson who are driving this hateful destiny, all for the flimsy belief in a made-up dogma designed to keep a certain group of people in power through fear, ignorance, and war.
*Israel has been at war since before 1948. Total, bloody, unforgiving, war.
*We cannot drill our way out of the energy dilemma. If we do not spend the money to develop new technologies for energy, we will be left behind in a wasteland of feudal states and ultra-conservative fascistic religious nuts. Kind of like Saudi-Arabia or Yemen.
*If we do not all come together and work out solutions, reduce our dependance on fossil fuels, and drastically reduce our population to sustainable levels, our future is dark, hot, miserable, and short (about another 1000 years, to be exact); because even the wealthyist potentate cannot breath hydrogen sulfide.
First, Michael e, the Obama administration has increased oil drilling beyond what the Bush administration ever did. If I recall correctly, the U.S. has increased it by 350% since Bush. Where is the requirement that all oil/gas drilled here, stay here?You are incredibly naive not to believe that it is headed for global markets. Oil/gas companies will squeeze every penny from the U.S. for the benefit of China and other emerging, energy hungry global markets. Let them run their pipelines, impoundment ponds filled with fracked water, and compressors past your front yard, not mine.
Secondly, I have no grand illusions about either Iran or Israel. I trust neither but our own former military officials – General James Cartwright, former vice chair of the joint Chiefs of Staff–said: “The U.S. does not have the military ability to stop Iran from developing nuclear weapons.” He also said: “Israel will not be able to stop Iran from developing nuclear weapons.” They can delay it but not stop it.
Both Cartwright and retired Navy Admiral William Fallon said they would advise the Obama administration against taking military action in Iran.
But let’s do exactly what we did with Iraq. Let’s ignore the people who warned us about an attack and repeat the same mistake all over again, like banging our heads against the wall and expecting a different result. It’s always a great day for a war.
Well Elaine all of Obamas so called increases are simple the end of the line of Bushes signed in oil developments.Contracts that ran 3 years after Obama got in .Effectively Obama has done nothing.Zero ,zilch ,nada.In fact he has hampered everything he could legally ,hamper and some things not so legal(reason he is in contempt).To say we are selling away oil we need -for a profit motive is not true.That is taking a very complicated supply issue and simplifying it down to six words.We need to develop energy resources.We live on an ocean of energy.Enough for all our needs for hundreds of years.Those who would block that development don’t know what the hell that “ripples’ effect will be on the world.And all this fear mongering is the same old game libs have played for ever.We would still be in the horse and buggy if some of them had their way.
As far as Iran….Why do you libs even worry.Iran promised you on a stack of Koran’s that they have no designs on building a bomb.None at all.Why even discuss their obtaining one.After all the promised you.
Dear michael e.: Perhaps you should read Haaretz, as they seem to be more balanced than whatever you are reading. Also, you should read some Herodotus and that great story about Croseus.
Remember, he went to the Oracle of Delphi and asked if he should attack, and the Oracle answered that if he did attack, a great nation would fall. Croseus did attack and life being ironic, he lost to CYRUS….hmm,
How intriguing. Cyrus, the Persian, the Iranian, the one who allowed the Jews to freely practice their religion and to return Palestina, years and years after the Romans threw them off or sold them into slavery.
So Cyrus sets them free…interesting….well, does history repeat or just get snarky? I wonder. If Iran is attacked, a great nation will fall, but whose nation will it be? Yours, mine, or will it be the entire Middle East? I guess Einstein was wrong about WW III, because it sure seems like it’s WW IV that will be fought with the leftovers, the rocks.
And all you compassionate conservatives who are itching for another war, while bemoaning a high debt, tell me how you intend to pay for it? Aren’t we broke? Aren’t we trillions in debt to the point where anything that benefits ordinary Americans cannot be afforded?. Already Mittens wants to delay Social Security and Medicare benefits and has announced it. Also both will be means tested.
You yak on and on about Iran. We threaten to bomb it,have punishing sanctions on it, declare it part of the axis of evil but if Iran ever talks about fighting back, it is immediately labeled as an ominous, aggressive threat. Does that constant bellicose attitude of the West increase Iran’s desire for a nuclear weapon?. It certainly would if I were in their place.
If Bush was trying to increase oil production, he certainly took his time and kept it well hidden. For 8 Bush years, oil production fell. Certainly took a long time for a man who tried to fast track anything for the benefit of corporate friends and campaign contributors.
USrael: NO Pearl Hormuz sneak attack on Iran, TOJObama/Bibihito!
American see Iran through their Zionist-controlled mainstream media. They’re hardly aware of the true nature of Iranians and their leaders.
â┚¬Ã…“The most important thing that I can convey about Iran in general â┚¬“ my most memorable reaction in retrospect â┚¬“ is this simple concept: Americans need to ignore anything and everything they hear about modern-day Iran, its leader, its culture, and its people from the mass media in America,â┚¬Ã‚ Michael Collins Piper, American author and correspondent for American Free Press, January 7, 2007.
In April 2007 â┚¬“ When the 15 detained British marines and sailors were released safely by the Islamic regime in Tehran â┚¬“ Israeli-born Jewish writer, bloger and jazz-player, Gilad Atzmon wrote:
â┚¬Ã…“The battle between Ahmadinejad and Blair is not a political or diplomatic one, it is not about points. It is actually a clash between civilizations, a fight between humanism and cold pragmatism. As it emerges, in this battle, it is Ahmadinejad rather than Blair who reminds us where goodness rests. Seemingly, a man who has been repeatedly presented by our deluded Western media as a â┚¬Ã‹Å“radical’, â┚¬Ã‹Å“fundamentalist’ and â┚¬Ã‹Å“Islamofascist’ has proved beyond doubt that it is actually him who knows what forgiveness and grace are all about, It was Ahmadinejad who has pardoned the enemy, it was Ahmadinejad that evoked some prospects of a peaceful futureâ┚¬Ã‚Â.
In September 2009 â┚¬“ famed American writer and blogger, John Kaminski, wrote in The beautiful Iranians:
â┚¬Ã…“I wish we had a president as decent as Mahmoud Ahmadinejad, the current and outspoken president of Iran. I mean, just compare the two men as human beings. Mr. Ahmadinejad seems like a decent guy from the neighborhood, trying to tell the truth while being trampled by the demonic Jewish spin machine. And here is George W. Bush (interchangeable with Barack Obama, as have been all American presidents since U.S. Grant), revealing himself to the world as a lying, pathological killer. Hey, which one would you choose?â┚¬Ã‚Â
http://rehmat1.wordpress.com/2011/03/13/islamic-republic-beyond-israeli-hasbara/
We need to put a stop to this dangerous game right away. Israel is playing a dangerous game with its survival. Iran is not seriously interested in wiping Israel off the map, claims to the contrary notwithstanding. A direct Israeli strike on Iran could change all of that and give Iran serious motivation to put Israel’s basic security at risk. The US has been relying on Iranian passivity to continue the agenda in Afghanistan and Iraq and elsewhere in the region. What would happen if they started to assert their interests in an active way. This game of pushing war on Iran needs to stop.
Michael e I have read an followed Iran’s history. You fixate on just the recent version 1979-? which is fanatical an theocratic an it happened because of the USA an what it did in 1953. Tell me was the Shaw of Iran “crazy” or just brutal. He was our butt boy for sure. The US has shown a penchant for saying it supports democracy but finds it works better if a dictator was in command. Methinks your knowledge of Iran’s history is lacking.
Night gaunt…Im pretty well versed on Iran back to the seventeen hundreds.Those years aside today…..their leaders are bat shit crazy.
Elaine Understand that unexpected peace could break out ten minutes from now.Iran just take down your hate filled posters that line your streets.Stop threatening people with the use of ultimate weapons whilst you develop them.Prove to the world you have no program to weaponize fissionable material with open inspections.Move into negotiations with world powers to end embargos.Declare peace and go home.No one will bother you.
Michael e: How should the U.S. pay for potentially another war–this time with Iran?
Im with you Elaine…..it cant.See Im one of those crazy people who actually can read a balance sheet.We are broke.Plus Trillions upon Trillions.We cant pay for a little red wagon let alone a war.You see spending ourselves into oblivion may also mean we can’t afford to even defend ourselves if attacked.In that Obama has helped to achieve the goals of some of the hardest asses of the left.
Funny how everyone seems to know how dreadful Ahmadinejad is but I rarely hear about what a bully (a nice word for a not so nice man – there are other, less polite words that describe him better) Netanyahu is. Somehow our press always takes Benjamin’s side as if he were some kind of saint. He’s not. He and his ilk are the problem. I know a land grabbing get out of my way kind of person (country) when I see him (it). Israel is such a place. With Iran out of the way, Israel may feel freer to finish the ethnic cleansing of the West Bank, enviegle their way to the Litani River and finish securing the Golan Heights plus for themselves. Read the history. It’s like a cancer that keeps taking a little more and a little more. Is Damascus in the Plan? Beirut? Hard to say. The threat of Iran has little to do with bombs or the crazy Ahmadinejad’s rantings or even previous history. It has to do with an awesome display of power from a country that we continue to support regardless of how many human rights abuses they make and how much land they steal. They are “the only Democracy” in the Middle East and our favorite ally. Wonder how they would favor us if we stopped paying the freight.
Israel has become a rogue nation that now expects, yes, expects the United States to back whatever outrageous military operation they choose to create, no matter how insane it might be.
I suspect the only thing that has stopped them from bombing Iran up to now is Obama’s reluctance to commit to such an atrocity and the Joint Chiefs caution thereof. But, never fear. Netanyahu is coming and will use every bit of propaganda and guilt at his disposal to convince Congress (along with AIPAC’s help – the strong arm no money for you guys variety) that Iran is a threat to Israel and needs to be taken down.
Anyone ever stop to consider just how much of a threat to Iran Israel is?
Elizabeth: I concur! Bibi labeled chair of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, General Dempsey, a “servant of Iran” (when Dempsey warned against an attack). This is the disrespect that Bibi accords us for the three billion a year we send to Israel. Further, his chastisement of Obama before the entire world (when Obama expressed opposition to Jewish expansion of settlements, was something to behold. He and other pro-Likud groups are fiercely badgering Congress to attack Iran (or help in an attack), as though we didn’t have our hands full in Afghanistan.
Elaine – You might add “as if we didn’t have good sense” to that last sentence. Although, I really do question how much good sense Congress has when the carrot is being dangled in an election year. Thanks for giving support to my assessment of Bibi.
Ladies…Your walking down a street late at night .You say goodnight to each other.One(Elizabeth) turns to the right down one dark smoky alleyway that looks like London’s white chapel ,and the other(Elaine) takes the left.Now at the end of elizabeths alley is Bibi holding a nuke.At the end of the other is” ah ma needs a job “holding one.Um Elaine(Im singing here)….Farewell to you my sweet Spanish lady.Farewell to you dear lady of Spain………………..
I believe it’s time for FAIR to establish a few ground rules here. If someone is simply unwilling or unable to comment in a civil way, the comment should be deleted.
Michael – Please. Your posts are getting more and more insipid and making personal attacks, even as bizarre fantasy, don’t belong on this site or any other. Like all people who find their ideas being challenged when addressed in a rational, factual manner, you have resorted to silliness. You need to either address the content of posts with factual statements or take a vow of silence.
Elaine and Elizabeth,The only person Im insulting is “ah ma needs a job”.Obviously I was only pointing in a light hearted way to the idea of moral relativism between Iran and Israel ,and it being an absolute hoot to even consider it.I would think it funny that anyone can not see who wears the white hat here and who wears the black.Arguments are given that it may be Iran who is sporting a white noggin cover, and i find it ludicrous.Clear enough?
Have either of you been to Israel or hoped to go someday?Beautiful land with amazing people.I have though I have no care to visit Iran any time soon.How about you????
Well. “ladies”, don’t say I didn’t warn you. Several times. FAIR is fair–they let the nincompoops and lunatics post, and make no distinctions. For God’s sake, don’t feed the fuckin’ trolls! What do you expect? At the very least, treat them with utter contempt–because that’s the way they think of you, as you attempt to rationally engage them. Simply read the post above mine. Is that a rational person speaking? Do you really think he’s going to engage you in any meaningful, rational way? C’mon! I know it’s tough. Believe me. I wasted a lot of time on these douchebags, gathering evidence putting together facts, etc., and what did it get me? Nothing. Trolls aren’t interested in facts, or logic, or morals, or democracy, or ethics, or decency, or any of that delicate, rude, and inchoate stuff. They know what they know, and despite it being utter contemptible bullshit, they endlessly run with it. Don’t try to reason with these people! That is all.
TimN: Believe me, I intend to take your advice.
Tim read your comments back.Listen to the hate filled vitriol dripping from your lips.Elaine you should be ashamed to agree with people who admit to feeling utter contempt for others and ask for a national shunning of those who do not believe as you do.Now Tim is an avowed socialist.I feel no anger toward him at all.He probably is a good person.I simply do not agree with his viewpoint.I would say to my fellow conservatives to keep lines of communication open to all voices.The saying to live by is “every man is my superior ,in that i may learn from him”We are after all,all Americans.If we gain power as I think we will,we must listen to all opinions.Reagan and Tip O’neil fought like cats and dogs but at the end of the day were friends.This hateful ,separatist ,rhetoric must be the first thing to go.Ive stated many times obama is the worst President I can remember but i hold no animosity at all toward him.He seems a good man.but just look at the hatred for Bush.How many here can say the same of him?No I will stay on a more positive inclusive road.
“r-the-ppi-declare/ Thanks for that awesome posting. It saved MUCH time :-)