On the Meet the Press roundtable on Sunday (10/30/11), talk turned to Steve Jobs. And, as one might expect from the avalanche of hero worship that accompanied news of his death, the chatter concerned how we might all one day live up to Jobs’ legacy.
Here’s host David Gregory, speaking to Tom Brokaw:
Tom, it’s interesting, author and journalist Jeff Greenfield tweeted recently about Steve Jobs the following: “Imagine a Steve Jobs in the auto industry, in healthcare, in energy, even in government. We’d have a different country.”
We know from Walter Isaacson‘s biography that Jobs had some pretty strong views about how the government should work–specifically, he wanted to “break” teachers’ unions, and praised the light regulatory burden on corporations doing business in China.
That certainly makes Apple more profitable. But consider this passage from the New York Times‘ review of Mike Daisey’s monologue, “The Agony and the Ecstasy of Steve Jobs,” about one Chinese facility:
While the official Chinese workday is 8 hours, the norm at Foxconn is more like 12 and even longer when the introduction of a product is at hand. One worker died after a 34-hour shift. Some of the workers he meets are as young as 13, and because of the repetitive nature of the labor, their hands often become deformed and useless within a decade, rendering them unemployable.
Back to the NBC panel, where Isaacson was using Jobs’ legacy to underline a point in Tom Brokaw’s new book:
ISAACSON: I think that painting a vision for the future, saying “Here’s where the country really ought to go,” we all know the broad outline, Steve Jobs knew the broad outlines, which is better jobs, skills for those jobs, and a chance for everybody to move up. (CROSSTALK) Well, I think that we all agree that there should be a fairer, flatter taxes…
GREGORY: Mm-hmm.
ISAACSON: …but there should also be a reduction in the inequality in this country.
GREGORY: Right.
We all agree that there should flatter taxes? I don’t think so.
And Apple, for the record, seemed to think it should pay no taxes:
Apple has made money so quickly and so prodigiously that it holds an outrageous $76 billion in cash and investments–an awesome sum thought to be parked in an obscure subsidiary, Braeburn Capital, located across the California border in Reno because the state of Nevada doesn’t have corporate or capital-gains taxes.
If only such a company could dominate every facet of our lives, commercial and political.
UPDATE: On March 16, 2012, the public radio show Marketplace exposed major elements of Mike Daisey’s account of his investigation of the Foxconn manufacturing plant to be fabricated and/or conflated, and This American Life retracted its report that featured Daisey as its main source. The descriptions of meeting with underaged workers and a worker with a disabled hand appear to be among the parts of his story that Daisey made up.
“[F]airer, flatter taxes …”
Is that anything like more humane police brutality?
Or more responsible corporate corruption?
I’d like to ask what planet these persons live on …
But I know the dismal answer.
@Doug
Yes, wherever did we get the idea that allowing everyone to pay at the same rate of taxation, regardless of their income, was fair? What a ludicrous idea! Clearly, some people need to pay more than others, and others need not pay any taxes at all. That’s clearly fair. Not equal taxation for all. Tax the rich. They have so much money and it all grows on trees. Herp derp!
Love him or hate him, one thing everyone has to admit is he knew how to run a business and how to inspire people to excel beyond their perceived limits. I’m typing this message on one of his inventions right now and my home is loaded with more of them. Moving his manufacturing to a country where he wasn’t under constant scrutiny and litigation from environmentalists and labor unions and moving other branches to states and regions where it is favorable for business is the key to a lot of his successes.
In today’s upside down world, if you make a lot of money, you’re a hero. It matters not that you got that money at the expense of the average worker. When Steve Jobs talked about cutting costs by having factories in China, he never explained what that means. If you’re making $300 on a product on a product you’re selling for $400, couldn’t you ethically sell it for $300, make $100 profit on it, hire workers here in the States and treat your workers fairly with health care and benefits. How much did he or Michael Dell or GE or Gateway or Wall Streeters or any one of these global corporations need to make to be sickeningly rich. They act like the rest of us our stupid to even suggest it shouldn’t be all about excessive profit. It’s disgusting. Having the ability to pay your bills makes for a life with a hell of a lot less pressure, but how much is enough. Someone said we shouldn’t talk about the dead–but we’ll all be dead some day so why not talk about them.
Apple invests their money in favorable tax environments because doing so is completely legal. Therefore, shareholders expect them to use legal tax tools to fulfill their fiduciary obligations as a publicly traded company.
For those who think corporations should pay more federal taxes, it would be more effective to criticize Congress for not changing the law. Nevadans who want to tax Apple can petition their state legislature to change their state law too.
Disclaimer: I own AAPL, and am an Apple fan.
You mean Steve Jobs is not Jesus Christ incarnate? Hard to believe after what I have been hearing on television. Understand he had a heart-to-heart with Obama, telling the president he would be a one-termer unless he cut regulations on his business and lowered corporate taxes. Not a word about those suffering from unemployment due to outsourcing or poverty due to the shredding of the safety net. Jesus Christ? More like Ayn Rand.
Steve Jobs was not an interesting person, or an educated person, or an informed person about anything but himself and his business.
Teh only thing he ever did was to MAKE FRIGGIN GADGETS, gadgets that did not in any interseting way transform anything. Henry Ford and Thomas Edison, were in fact, despite the Great Johnstown flood, buys who made things athat created jobs, and made life better in certain ways for the entire world. Not so in the case of Jobs. Jobs did not make jobs, and I wonder why the American character is so empty that they adore a schmuck like him.
I think he was brilliant, but so was Mr. Tesla. I think that in some ways they were alike in the obsession with ideas and making them become more than what others could conceive, and also wanting perfection and knowing that it could be achieved.
Edison also had many inventions,including the carbon arc light bulb, but without Tesla and his AC current , Edisons’s DC would have killed that bulb. Edison aligned himself with GE, but Tesla was more of a loner, and many of his ideas disappeared into history or to someone else’ credit. Sometimes timing is everything.
IF, Steve Jobs hadn’t been asked back to Apple, or if he hadn’t gone, then the world would be a different place today in terms of technology. It is a different place today in terms of outsourcing jobs and in union busting and in devaluing people, both inside and outside of America. I don’t think that an inventor will ever necessairly ever be a philosopher king, although Buckminster Fuller came close!
I think Mr. Jobs’ philosopny came close too, ‘Stay hungey, stay foolish,” but I don’t think that was what lead him in his quest, I think that came later when he realized what he had and who he was!
Steve Jobs and China. When he brought out the Mac in 1984, he built what was a state of the art robotic factory. Pay was good. You worked less hard, and fewer hours, than many of the software engineers, but you made a middle class living. Many other computer makers also made their machines in the US. In 1997, when he came back to Apple, the Mac factory was sold for junk, and everybody was making computers in Asia. The Mac was already expensive. Making it in the US would have made it impossible to compete. Same goes for the cash they keep on hand. Part of the way they’ve increased market share is by buying up all the RAM they need to make millions of iPods and iPhones at the lowest cost.
Pass a law that computers have to be produced in the country they’ll be bought in and Apple and all the others would obey. And Apple has the fewest lobbyists. You can look it up.
I’m in favor of Steve Jobs who designed a superior computer. I have 2 computers, an eMac desktop, and an Apple laptop. I love both of them, and have had very few problems in the decades that I’ve used them. I’ve never had a virus in either, and have had few technical problems in all this time with either. I AM SO GLAD THAT THERE IS AN ALTERNATIVE TO P.C.S! I love my Macs!
I love my Apple stuff (typing on my iPad). I prefer it over PCs any day. I think Steve Jobs had a lot to do with making great stuff. That doesn’t mean I agree with his personal political views or condone the way people are treated in the manufacturing of Apple products. Or any gadgets, for that matter. Or jeans. Jobs was not a politician or a lobbyist or an economist. He oversaw the making of great stuff. Those of us who are appalled at the concentration of wealth, at the treatment of workers, at the tax code, or any other issue that can be alleviated by changing the laws of this nation, must get involved to make a difference.
Fascinating blogs.Especially Lawrence and btn.Very informative.
Word is Steve met Obama and shocked him as he dressed down the President for being anti business across the board.He never gave to charity ,and he secured his money as best he could against the government hand before his death(and after). Ive read the books and articles about the man .By those accounts he was a saint…a mean SOB,an able business man,a job destroyer for profit, and a visionary.I don’t think he will be accepted by the right or left as a flag bearer.He carried his own flag.Apple corp.His work there has helped the world in many ways.His business model we will debate long into the future.That is his legacy.My dad used to say don’t speak badly of the dead.But truth be told, he was a complicated and flawed man.Probably like most of us.And just like all of us….just a man.
Love FAIR and its blog, but for God’s sake, add the ability to tweet your pieces. You look ancient without it + more importantly, you are missing out huge time on ability to have your good work go viral. It should take your webmaster literally minutes to include social media tools.
I like the “fairer, flatter taxes” oxymoron by Jobs’ apparently witless biographer Isaacson, and then that drone Gregory going, “Mmm-hmm”. You know what btn? you’re only half right. Congress is largely owned by banks and listens to the lobbyists hired by the corporations. so I blame both. The corporations and banks expect something in return for their “contributions,” and they get it.
I second what Jack Ma is saying. It should be made trivially easy to link a FAIR piece on, say, Facebook.
Why not a flat tax meaning no deductions but still have a graduated rate?
Leonard the problem is not just balancing the numbers.If you could design a new system that was accepted as fair by most people, and doubled the amount taken in,the government would still look to their most important need.Do they loose CONTROL of your money.Any flat tax leaves control to the people who earn it.What gov takes in depends on how much people decide to spend or save.Government hates that
@Jack Ma, Oocytes: We are in the process of upgrading our website now and making it easier to share on social media is one of our big goals.
I have a MAC and I like it, but I think Jobs had a God Complex and personified GREED! How he treated people was unbelievable. All that money, his kids may have all kinds of money, but can you imagine the scars they have on their physic. I will not replace my MAC with a MAC. As far as I am concerned the President should have quickly ushered him out of his office. The whole goal of Capitalism is money, unfettered Capitalism will destroy anything in it’s way, institutions, people, the environment, and the list goes on.
Mary how do you feel about Socialism?
Here is WHAT Steve Jobs and Apple did—along with a myriad of other American-in-name-only members of Big Business over the past 30 years (i.e., large corporations who pay little in U.S. taxes even at only 35%, but whose corporate headquarters & stock trading reap the benefits of the protection of the United States, i.e., Constitution, statutes, State Department & American Armed Forces). Also what follows is WHY the economy of the United States has “flipped” during the past 30 years since the beginning of the Reagan administration when top marginal tax rates were radically reduced to the top marginal rates that we see today: 35% for corporate net profits; 35% for individuals; and 15% for investors’ long-term capital gains.
As mentioned above, here are a couple of informative “little links” from “jiesworld.com” that describe the preceding “WHAT & WHY”—and which discuss China’s becoming the manufacturer to the world (a real eye opener for those who haven’t been actually paying attention since the 1980’s when America’s corporate manufacturers made a conscious decision to begin seeking cheap and unprotected overseas labor to make and/or assemble their products for resale INSIDE AMERICA—in direct competition with America’s dwindling middle class manufacturing labor force and with America’s shrinking middle class overall):
http://www.jiesworld.com/china.htm and http://www.jiesworld.com/international_corporations_in_china.htm
By “flipped” we mean that 75% of Big Business manufacturing jobs were eliminated inside the U.S. and moved overseas since the Reagan years—first to Japan and Mexico, and then to China. Yes, there are still some truly American corporate manufacturers who provide 25% of the JOBS INSIDE AMERICA—mostly in the defense, aerospace & automotive arenas (to include their U.S.-based manufacturing suppliers).
However, 75% of JOBS INSIDE AMERICA now must be created by Middle Class Small Business. Unfortunately, America’s Middle Class Small Business manufacturing community simply cannot compete for product demand in U.S.markets that are flooded by imports from Chinese manufacturers who pay only $1-$2/hour to employees who are housed in dormitories and fed and clothed at the “company store”. We are reminded of the old song about America’s pre-union organized coal miners, i.e., “You load 16 tons and what do you get…another day older and deeper in debt…St. Peter don’t you call me, because I can’t go…I owe my soul to the company store”.
In other words, Americans (who still have jobs and money for consumption) are now addicted to “unnaturally cheap” products (i.e., MADE IN CHINA)—while at the same time, the U.S. government is borrowing $hundreds-of-billions from China to pay America’s ongoing bills in the form of $1+ trillion annual budget deficits.
It’s the best of both worlds for China—and the worst of both worlds for America’s shrinking middle class—and for America as a whole! And as America’s middle class shrinks, our working class grows—along with our poor class. In other words, the “incredible shrinking window” of upward mobility from poor to working class and in turn from working class to middle class gets smaller and smaller and smaller with each passing day, month and year. Of course, Chinese manufacturing workers have no upward mobility at all—reminiscent of America more than a hundred years ago!
And the Great Recession and Wall Street Blowout of 2007-2011 (and still counting) reduced the size of that “incredible shrinking window” even further! Simply put, America is running out of time. Even Mr. Jobs is quoted as becoming acutely aware of this during his final years. Yet, in order to complete with the myriad of other American-in-name-only corporate manufacturers, he apparently felt compelled to grow Apple’s China-based work force even more.
As utterly outrageous as this may sound—America’s elite are seeking to push the U.S. government to the brink of bankruptcy by refusing (through the republican party) to seek new revenue by increasing top marginal corporate, individual & investor tax rates. In so doing, congress and the president will be forced to cut $trillions from America’s middle class, working class & poor class safety nets (the trust funds of which have been sucked dry to the tune of some $5 trillion already). That’s 1/3 of the U.S. Public Debt, incidentally.
Not only that (and after 10 years of sacrifice by America’s Soldiers, Marines, Airmen & Sailors and Their Families), America’s national defense is about to be hit with more than $1 trillion in cuts!
Apparently America’s individual, corporate and investor elite (through the republican party) seem to think that they can continue to increase their U.S.-protected wealth with a hollowed out military line of defense.
Well, maybe (American) Big Business simply doesn’t think it needs America anymore. In the 1920’s, that would have been aptly referred to as “getting too big for their own britches.” Those were the days of the 25% top marginal rate and financial “bubbledom” that immediately preceded the Wall Street Blowout of 1929-32 and the Great Depression. The Dow Jones Industrial Average did not recover until 1954 after the conclusion of World War II (1945) and the Korean War (1953). By 1932, the DJIA had lost 89% of its pre-crash value.
Perhaps as corporations with wealth equal to that of many a small sovereign country, (American) Big Business can continue to exist simply by keeping its facilities, employees and taxes in foreign countries such as China, i.e., INSIDE CHINA. After all, we’re sure that China will continue to “protect” these Big Business corporate manufacturers—as long as they can continue to sell their products INSIDE AMERICA.
Naturally, if American voters finally get smart and somehow manage to “force” congress and the president to put up tariffs against Chinese goods in order to protect American Middle Class Small Business products—China would have no further incentive to “harbor” companies such as Apple (and all of the other companies listed in the “little links” that we provided at the beginning of our post today).
Would that bring those corporate manufacturers back to America? Perhaps.
OKJack┞¢Group┞¢
Middle and Working Class Disabled American Veterans┞¢
We Paid the Dues that Aren’t Required!┞¢
Here is WHAT Steve Jobs and Apple did—along with a myriad of other American-in-name-only members of Big Business over the past 30 years (i.e., large corporations who pay little in U.S. taxes even at only 35%, but whose corporate headquarters & stock trading reap the benefits of the protection of the United States, i.e., Constitution, statutes, State Department & American Armed Forces). Also what follows is WHY the economy of the United States has “flipped” during the past 30 years since the beginning of the Reagan administration when top marginal tax rates were radically reduced to the top marginal rates that we see today: 35% for corporate net profits; 35% for individuals; and 15% for investors’ long-term capital gains.
As mentioned above, here are a couple of informative “little links” from “jiesworld.com” that describe the preceding “WHAT & WHY”—and which discuss China’s becoming the manufacturer to the world (a real eye opener for those who haven’t been actually paying attention since the 1980’s when America’s corporate manufacturers made a conscious decision to begin seeking cheap and unprotected overseas labor to make and/or assemble their products for resale INSIDE AMERICA—in direct competition with America’s dwindling middle class manufacturing labor force and with America’s shrinking middle class overall):
jiesworld.com/china.htm
jiesworld.com/international_corporations_in_china.htm
By “flipped” we mean that 75% of Big Business manufacturing jobs were eliminated inside the U.S. and moved overseas since the Reagan years—first to Japan and Mexico, and then to China. Yes, there are still some truly American corporate manufacturers who provide 25% of the JOBS INSIDE AMERICA—mostly in the defense, aerospace & automotive arenas (to include their U.S.-based manufacturing suppliers).
However, 75% of JOBS INSIDE AMERICA now must be created by Middle Class Small Business. Unfortunately, America’s Middle Class Small Business manufacturing community simply cannot compete for product demand in U.S.markets that are flooded by imports from Chinese manufacturers who pay only $1-$2/hour to employees who are housed in dormitories and fed and clothed at the “company store”. We are reminded of the old song about America’s pre-union organized coal miners, i.e., “You load 16 tons and what do you get…another day older and deeper in debt…St. Peter don’t you call me, because I can’t go…I owe my soul to the company store”.
In other words, Americans (who still have jobs and money for consumption) are now addicted to “unnaturally cheap” products (i.e., MADE IN CHINA)—while at the same time, the U.S. government is borrowing $hundreds-of-billions from China to pay America’s ongoing bills in the form of $1+ trillion annual budget deficits.
It’s the best of both worlds for China—and the worst of both worlds for America’s shrinking middle class—and for America as a whole! And as America’s middle class shrinks, our working class grows—along with our poor class. In other words, the “incredible shrinking window” of upward mobility from poor to working class and in turn from working class to middle class gets smaller and smaller and smaller with each passing day, month and year. Of course, Chinese manufacturing workers have no upward mobility at all—reminiscent of America more than a hundred years ago!
And the Great Recession and Wall Street Blowout of 2007-2011 (and still counting) reduced the size of that “incredible shrinking window” even further! Simply put, America is running out of time. Even Mr. Jobs is quoted as becoming acutely aware of this during his final years. Yet, in order to complete with the myriad of other American-in-name-only corporate manufacturers, he apparently felt compelled to grow Apple’s China-based work force even more.
As utterly outrageous as this may sound—America’s elite are seeking to push the U.S. government to the brink of bankruptcy by refusing (through the republican party) to seek new revenue by increasing top marginal corporate, individual & investor tax rates. In so doing, congress and the president will be forced to cut $trillions from America’s middle class, working class & poor class safety nets (the trust funds of which have been sucked dry to the tune of some $5 trillion already). That’s 1/3 of the U.S. Public Debt, incidentally.
Not only that (and after 10 years of sacrifice by America’s Soldiers, Marines, Airmen & Sailors and Their Families), America’s national defense is about to be hit with more than $1 trillion in cuts!
Apparently America’s individual, corporate and investor elite (through the republican party) seem to think that they can continue to increase their U.S.-protected wealth with a hollowed out military line of defense.
Well, maybe (American) Big Business simply doesn’t think it needs America anymore. In the 1920’s, that would have been aptly referred to as “getting too big for their own britches.” Those were the days of the 25% top marginal rate and financial “bubbledom” that immediately preceded the Wall Street Blowout of 1929-32 and the Great Depression. The Dow Jones Industrial Average did not recover until 1954 after the conclusion of World War II (1945) and the Korean War (1953). By 1932, the DJIA had lost 89% of its pre-crash value.
Perhaps as corporations with wealth equal to that of many a small sovereign country, (American) Big Business can continue to exist simply by keeping its facilities, employees and taxes in foreign countries such as China, i.e., INSIDE CHINA. After all, we’re sure that China will continue to “protect” these Big Business corporate manufacturers—as long as they can continue to sell their products INSIDE AMERICA.
Naturally, if American voters finally get smart and somehow manage to “force” congress and the president to put up tariffs against Chinese goods in order to protect American Middle Class Small Business products—China would have no further incentive to “harbor” companies such as Apple (and all of the other companies listed in the “little links” that we provided at the beginning of our post today).
Would that bring those corporate manufacturers back to America? Perhaps.
OKJack┞¢Group┞¢
Middle and Working Class Disabled American Veterans┞¢
We Paid the Dues that Aren’t Required!┞¢