Today in the New York Times Paul Krugman (1/10/11) suggests that we not pretend that “both sides” are responsible for toxic political rhetoric:
Where’s that toxic rhetoric coming from? Let’s not make a false pretense of balance: It’s coming, overwhelmingly, from the right. It’s hard to imagine a Democratic member of Congress urging constituents to be “armed and dangerous” without being ostracized; but Rep. Michele Bachmann, who did just that, is a rising star in the GOP.
…Listen to Rachel Maddow or Keith Olbermann, and you’ll hear a lot of caustic remarks and mockery aimed at Republicans. But you won’t hear jokes about shooting government officials or beheading a journalist at the Washington Post. Listen to Glenn Beck or Bill O’Reilly, and you will.
Unfortunately, that false balance is not just coming from the right, but appears all across the media. On Meet the Press (1/9/11), NBC‘s David Gregory rounded up examples of demonizing rhetoric:
Let’s be honest, there is a demonization. It happens amongst all of you, it happens in the public, it happens in the polarized aspects of the press, a demonization of the other side. Whether it’s a congressman saying, “You lie,” from the House floor, whether it’s a Democrat who literally shoots the cap-and-trade bill in a campaign advertisement. Or your former colleague, Alan Grayson from Florida, compared Republicans to the Taliban. I mean, this kind of vitriol on both sides does contribute to that, that demonization.
Dan Balz of the Washington Post (1/10/11):
Politicians in both parties have said this is not a time for one side to try to score political points against the other over who bears responsibility for these conditions, though there is plenty of finger-pointing in the blogosphere and on Twitter. The reality is everyone bears some responsibility, from politicians to political operatives to the media to ordinary Americans.
New York Times (1/10/11):
Not since the Oklahoma City bombing in 1995 has an event generated as much attention as to whether extremism, antigovernment sentiment and even simple political passion at both ends of the ideological spectrum have created a climate promoting violence.
New York Times’ Matt Bai leads off with examples from “both sides,” and in so doing equates one of the most prominent national figures in the Republican Party (and a regular contributor to the GOP house organ Fox News Channel) with some unnamed diarist from Arizona who didn’t support a recent Gifford vote:
Within minutes of the first reports Saturday that Rep. Gabrielle Giffords, an Arizona Democrat, and a score of people with her had been shot in Tucson, pages began disappearing from the Web. One was Sarah Palin’s infamous “cross hairs” map from last year, which showed a series of contested Congressional districts, including Ms. Giffords’, with gun targets trained on them. Another was from Daily Kos, the liberal blog, where one of the congresswoman’s apparently liberal constituents declared her “dead to me” after Ms. Giffords voted against Nancy Pelosi in House leadership elections last week.
To his credit, Bai spends significant time recounting violent rhetoric from Republican and conservative leaders–likely because there is just a lot more of that to write about. But he offers an excuse for their behavior:
It’s not that such leaders are necessarily trying to incite violence or hysteria; in fact, they’re not. It’s more that they are so caught up in a culture of hyperbole, so amused with their own verbal flourishes and the ensuing applause, that–like the bloggers and TV hosts to which they cater–they seem to lose their hold on the power of words.
Bai adds:
None of this began last year, or even with Mr. Obama or with the Tea Party; there were constant intimations during George W. Bush’s presidency that he was a modern Hitler or the devious designer of an attack on the World Trade Center, a man whose very existence threatened the most cherished American ideals.
Yes, there are people who called Bush a “modern Hitler,” or believed he had some role in the 9/11 attacks. Those people are generally not given talkshows, and cannot be found in positions of power in the Democratic Party.
A better balanced article not 50/50 but at least a bit of both sides.
Oh come on. You want your violent rhetoric? I’ll give you your violent rhetoric.
We don’t know all the facts yet, but whether or not this is the
result of the lies propagated by the hatemongers, there have been
innumerable instances where there has been a connection, haven’t
there?
They are complicit in those crimes, but so are many of those who claim
to be aghast at them, speaking of “restoring” a civility that never
existed, rather than directly confronting the inciters, even when they
themselves have been the targets of their bile.
That’s not turning the other cheek. That’s a failure of humanity in
favor of playing the political game where reactionaries can utter any
vomitous falsehood demonizing the “other” that they please, and never
suffer any consequences. It’s one thing for Dear Misleader to demur
as he’s the subject of racist and Islamophobic venom, but it’s about
more than him, isn’t it?
His and so many others’ inaction allows this cancer to metastasize,
and we need to hold them accountable for that.
And you might want to have a look at Ted Rall’s piece:
Political Violence? Stop Violent Politics
Media Spokesmen Move to Stifle Violent Speech
http://www.rall.com/rallblog/2011/01/10/syndicated-column-political-violence-stop-violent-politics
“Horror!”, wailed the mass murderers and their enablers.
After a moment of silence and self-reflection, they returned to their
duties in the killing fields.
Joe Mudd: A better balanced article not 50/50 but at least a bit of both sides.
That you could make this comment on an article about false balance is cause to doubt you are listening to the arguments you deign to criticize on this blog.
It’s a well defined condition, Jedna. If the likes of the teabaggers et al were only a bit wiser they would realise how profoundly stupid they are being.
I know it’s been asked before, but exactly what left wing media are you talking about? The NLR; Nonexistant Labour Radio – which fills the airwaves with tales of corporate wrongdoing? The IBN; Imaginary Broadcasting Network – owned by those radical environmentalists who constantly denounce the destruction of the earth by the industrialists? The people you called ‘left’ are right wing! The NYT is NOT a left wing paper, NOR is the Washington Post. How many papers in North America even have a labour section anymore?
You came close to the truth in the last paragraph when you alluded to Hitler. Of course you didn’t nail the fact down quite right. Bush wasn’t Hitler at all; for many reasons, I’ll not go into in this comment. The fact is that the government of the USA is a fascist government, not like Hitler’s Germany, very much like the governments which were run by B. Mussolini and/or F. Franco. Your nation is a one party police state. But the Powers That Be, know better than to make it totally obvious that that is the case.
With all due respect. Wake up little froggies, the water’s been boiling for the last few decades now.
Karl Dubhe: The people you called ‘left’ are right wing! The NYT is NOT a left wing paper, NOR is the Washington Post.
Who the hell here is saying the NYT is a left wing paper? And who on earth is saying the Washington Post is?
I think we need to be clear on just what we mean by “violent rhetoric”.
Fierce speech is legitimate. In fact, it’s essential to truth telling. To call Bush, or Obama, or any president a “mass murderer” is to speak the truth about the consequences of their acts here and abroad, isn’t it?
The lies spewed by the reactionaries, fomenting hatred against “the other”, with the knowledge that they encourage violence against abortion clinics, immigrants, Muslims et al., are not “the other side of the coin”.
That is indeed a “false balance”, and one that will be used to squelch fierce righteous speech in the name of “civility”. And while “fierce” doesn’t perforce equate to “violent”, I think it’s important to make clear that although I’m not referring to supporting a call for random violence against political criminals, if someone argues for the right of folks to defend themselves from attacks by agents of the state or fascist thugs, I think that’s a defensible stand to take.
I don’t mean to come across as facile here. It’s a deadly serious and complex matter, and violence should always be a last resort, but you have to ask yourself how you can preach nonviolence uber alles in the face of the horrors visited upon so many, don’t you?
But again, fierce speech rarely alludes to these situations. I’m mainly talking about calling a spade a spade, and doing so in no uncertain terms. We have a duty to fight against the machinations of the gummint and corpress to lump that in with the haters and their calls to arms, figuratively and literally.
When Obama says you bring a knife and we bring a gun it means nothing.When he tells his Mexican crowd you have to fight against your enemies(the republicans) it means nothing.Words have nothing to do with this nut and his actions.When certain outlets instantly blamed Sarah Palin ot the tea party it was more than obvious that they were idiots. To blame anyone left or right is so stupid it is not even worth the effort….It was a nut.A nut who had been a threat to those who knew him for years.It is interesting that Palin was put on the same plane as Obama of course..I mean why not blame him before her?The left jumping is always to be expected- and then being shot down is a given we live with .Add up when the left is blamed …and the right. Always the same.It is always a supposed right wing extremist.Never a left wing extremist like Bill Ayers ,friend of our president.Look ever since the alternative view of conservative radio moved to town the left has been trying to find an angle to shut all these people who are tearing the left a knew one.It goes back a long way.When kennedy was shot guess what the first news reports said>thats right they blamed it on right wing extremists.Of course once we found it was a communist we had to agree not to blame ALL communists.Just like today ….dont blame ALL muslims.Of course it is always in vogue to blame ALL conservatives.
The insanity starts with corporations bribing Congress to start wars, then paying media to lie about them. Killing becomes routine and acceptable. Americans maintain the insanity by not demanding Truth from either Congress or media, and driving gas hogs to big-box stores 24/7 to support the corporations. It’s an ugly circle.
Palin, Hannity, Beck, Limbaugh and Loughner are not the cause of the insanity. They are the result.
Fair, Truthout and Assange are on the right track to make a decent world. If America could learn to embrace Truth as if it were life itself, we would have a much better chance of survival.
Here’s the story behind the “you bring a knife and we bring a gun” quote. The reference is VERY obscure. I googled the quote and got nothing. The problem was, it was misquoted. What he was reported as saying was, “If they bring a knife to the fight, you bring a gun.” Armed with that version of the quote, I finally found an obscure Wall Street journal blog from June 15, 2008. Possessed of the date, I finally found another reference in the NY Times archive. But why was it coming up now? I tried Fox News and Rush Limbaugh’s sites and found nothing. Finally on the Drudge Report I found a link to the WSJ blog.
Now, what does it mean? Contrary to Michael E., it does mean something. It is actually a quote from a movie. The movie was the 1987 version of “The Untouchables” by Brian DePalma. It is spoken by the character of Police Sgt. Danny Malone (played by Sean Connery). The actual quote goes, “He pulls a knife, you pull a gun. He sends one of yours to the hospital, you send one of his to the morgue. That’s the Chicago way!” Obama apparently only quoted the first sentence, according to the WSJ and NY Times.
Now, the context. According to both stories, he was at a Philadelphia fund-raiser. He was bombarded by supporters asking him how he was going to respond to attacks by Republicans.
He offered the quote, clearly tongue in cheek, suggesting that he would not only respond in kind, but would attack the Republicans even harder.
So we are now asked to believe that an obscure movie reference given verbally to a meeting of supporters is equivalent to placing crosshairs over a target prominently on your website, along with the legend “Lock and Reload”.
Yes, both people were speaking metaphorically. But one was whispering, the other shouting at the top of her voice.
The remarkably thin skin of the reactionary right got rather chafed this past week, didn’t it? Not the conservatives–there are no actual conservatives that I can think of in the media, and few of them left in think tanks or the Congress It’s all Rightists, or Radical Statists (think of the Cheneys, all of them, here), or Tea-bagger-cum-Libertarian government-hating Know-Nothings (think Sarah Palin, Michele Bachmann). The major media absolutely cannot stand the thought of their false dichotomy being upended by the truth–that overwhelmingly, violent-minded rhetoric, suspended and supported by vicious and stupid lies, comes exclusively from the Right. For charlatans like David Gregory and Matt Bai, there’e only one thing worse than being called a bad journalist, and that’s being called a liberal. They have to believe that there’s two extremes, Right and Left, equally powerful, equally odious, equally bereft of ideas decent and right. It’s only the safe middle (about a whisker to the left of the Tea-Flakes) that is worthy of our respect.
P.S.: It’s sure nice knowing that the Snow Queen and her apparatchiks were, and are, squirmin’ and hoppin’ mad. A sure sign she’s going to say somethng remarkably stupid and offensive, even for her. And she did! “Blood Libel?” Wow! It was instructive to watch her, and her imbecile Father-confessor Beck. The sheer self-pity and narcissistic wailing were an amazing sight and sound to behold. Palin’s constant resentment and petty meaness and phony concern for those she recently demonized were on full display. A cheap, tawdry, and low politician, she actually managed to construe herself as a victim of the lunatic Loughner. (If the poster was so innocuous, then why was it taken down literally minutes after the murders? If she really had any principles, she would have defended her right to free speech right then and there, no? Instead we get her nincompoop “spokeswoman” telling the lie about the surveyor’s symbol. Yet, still, the map came down, didn’t it?) The Liberal’s treachery (in her mind, at least) is bound to drive her even closer to the edge–she’s going to say something that even she’ll regret, and that’ll be worth watching. (Like her wretched video–look at her eyes! Unhinged!)
Rhetoric? –only words, folks. Guns? –we need a few laws.
I grew up in that ultra-conservative Republican family. My father was Barry Goldwater’s campaign manager when Goldwater first ran for the senate. Goldwater’s presidential campaign platform was anti-civil rights. My father was a member of the John Birch Society. / My daughter was given a metal box of papers from her paternal grandparents. It contained their membership card in the KKK. Both my parents voted against the Equal Rights Amendment when I was a single mom. / I rejected the us-and-them manifest-destiny mentality. So, I’m not about to apologize for the generalized statement that the vitriol comes mostly from the “right”. // Jean Clelland-Morin
Hey how about that 4 minute hate tweet on you tube making the rounds calling for Sarah Palins death set to an Alice cooper song schools out?Any problem with that my hate Sarah crowd?
Very true & frustrating to progressive people. But FAIR neglects one political benefit of this rhetoric of “we’re all in trouble, together”, as yesteday’s UK Guardian Editorial (http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2011/jan/14/editorial-barack-obama-tucson-memorial) pointed out–it’s a no lose proposition for the left, because at least a little bit, the right, in control of the Republ. Party, is forced to also moderate its views after being forced to say what a horrible thing happened. The more centrist Democrats say it, the less the Repubs can try to repeal the (weak) health care law, prevent (hopefully) the sale of (new) Glock cubmachine guns, etc.
The difference is…. we on the right personally have no problem with Pelosi or Obama. Or the rest of them. Probably nice folks.We disagree of course on policy..You HATE Sarah ..Not even for her policies.Doubt most of you even know them or could write them out..I have been on both sides of the fence..YOU HATE her. Admit it.You can always tell who the left fears by the level of their hatred
Michael E. – I think the left is far more responsible for making Palin a public figure than the right. I don’t hear the right talking about her much. She says really stupid things. She says really inflammatory things. And she says the most controversial things she can think of to stay in the news and keep the cash flowing in.
It’s an embarrassment to our country that she is a national figure. But the left doesn’t fear her. Why would they? She has no real possibility to be in any position of power. She’s all mouth and no brain. She makes herself an easy target for ridicule.
Certainly there is much anger from the left toward her. But I think that anger is more toward the left’s perception that the right takes her seriously. I don’t know if the right does or not but the left certainly doesn’t.
I think it’s clear that everyone on the left perceives Palin to be an imbecile. Everyone everywhere else sees the same thing. Not sure of the percentage or right-wingers who know that but essentially, 99.9% of everyone sees Palin for what she is – an inept, impotent plastic person.
Nothing to fear.
It seems to me there has been violence perpetrated by unbalanced people that has come as a direct consequence of a Glenn Beck or a Sarah Palin type of person speaking out in an irresponsible manner in the recent past. I don’t know if this particular case can be directly connected to Sarah’s bullet target map. But if it can, in my opinion, she should be arrested and prosecuted for inciting violence. There’s a big difference between free speech, which is still semi-legal in the United States and inciting violence, which isn’t legal, with good reason. Some would argue that if the perpetrators are unbalanced, the inciter would lose responsibility. But we all know with budget cuts and cut government programs, there are a lot more unbalanced people being “mainstreamed” and out on the street. In my opinion that means we all need to be a little more careful how we characterize our public statements. Perhaps, rather than using gun sights, Palin could have used red circles, which would not have implied these people should be shot.
I get a feeling that the site is publishing one-sided accounts. Both sides particularly the media encourages this type of character assassination. Our Government officials are a major part of it. AG Holder called us cowards relative to civil rights. Homeland Security Secretary Napolitano called veterans who protested,”Nazis”, VP Biden called George Bush an idiot, a local Democratic candidate had an ad showing the GOP elephant in would you believe crosshairs.
AS for Sarah Palin, I don’t believe she’s qualified to run for President or Vice President. However she pulls no punches and tells it like it is. I don’t like Limbaugh, I tolerate Beck. But give them credit, they can backup what they say. Olberman, Maddow, the NY times, Time, Newsweek,USA Today just run off at the mouth with the same old it’s the Republicans,It’s Palin, it’s Bush’s fault. Yesterday our local paper had 3 columnists taking a swipe at John Boehner, The GOP, and gun owners.
AND let’s not forget Chris Matthews who gets a tingle very time he hears the name of Barack Obama
It’s obvious the media ignores truth,honesty, impartiality and facts.
The Tucson assassin did not retreat. He was trying to reload when responsible citizens stopped him. President Obama tried to bring together a shocked country by saying the violent political rhetoric did not cause the assassin to act. Yet, it was Rep. Gabrielle Giffords herself who, well before the violence, said that putting her district in the crosshairs was irresponsible. â┚¬Ã…“There are consequences for that action,â┚¬Ã‚ she said. She probably meant that there are violent people out there who are looking for validation for their acts and the right wing rhetoric provided that validation.
The official right wing response is to spread the blame and claim that they are the real victims. Sara Palin is getting death threats because of the liberal â┚¬Ã…“blood libelâ┚¬Ã‚ against her. What is more, both parties are guilty because President Obama used the image of bringing a knife to a political gun fight. That is equal to Sharron Angle implying that if the wrong candidate is elected, the American public has the Constitutional right to assassinate him.
I do not believe that most Republicans condone violence, but that angry, fearful mob out there is a large part of their constituency, and the main stream did not speak out against the rhetoric. That is a singular sin of omission when the first two words out of the mouths of a right winger are â┚¬Ã…“personal responsibility.â┚¬Ã‚Â
Jerry Bitts
cafeen man
All those asides and aspersions you cast on Sarah.Just plug in Obamas name and you got it about right.She was always more qualified than Obama.Smarter -and had the correct core values.Though she never ran she would be a 1000x better president than the clueless man now in charge.And yet….. she is not in my eyes ready to be president.So what does that say for BAM? VP?Hell if Bidon can do it,any dolt off the street could handle it.She would be 10,000 x better at that.As far as how does the tea party or the right view her?For now Just another voice pointing out the insanity of this regime. And All your hatred wont land a glove.She is telling the truth and the left doesn’t know what the word means.If I were you i would hope for the best and prepare for the worst.I remember a well know pundit telling me when she stepped down(gov) her 15 minutes were over.I just smiled.Im still smiling
Excellent piece, though you should add Jon Stewart to that annoying list of folks trying to create false balance. For the last 2 years, the guy’s gotten more conservative — even defending Israel more and more, when he used to be the most critical.
If you have any doubt about whether trolls at this sight hate someone like Pelosi or Obama in completely irrational ways, simply check the archives–if you can stomach it. It’s always amusing to see trolls deny what they’ve been screeching about for the past year or so. Do you think our memories, like yours, have been erased. or damaged, like yours, by years of Right-wing propaganda? More comedy, high and low, when Rightist trolls suddenly pretend that they’re taking the high road. Definitely time for a lie down on the Doctor’s couch, what with the tremendous amount of projection going on, and the hysterical, idiotic defense of stupid, violent-minded people who want nothing more than to make millions whilst pressing the boot down ever harder on the necks of their most ardent admirers.
Tim i wont deny it has been brass knuckles against Pelosi or Obama. Personally i think she is not all there and he is dead wrong.But hate??????Not an ounce ,not at all.What i have seen of both of them is a loving and loved relationship within their families.And that is a real measure outside the public face.I would guess both a fine and decent people.Obama especially seems a good egg.The tea party is diametrically opposed to both of them.A normal sentence would go something like this……We must stop Pelosi and Obama from destroying this economy……..On the left it would be a little different.Sahra Palin is an idiot.A tea bagger who cant put a complete thought together.Her followers are brainless…….Do you not see the difference?Now if you were to say “we”disagree with Palins plan to drill natural resources at this time due to our feelings that………That is acceptable Tim.That is dialog without every other word being words of personal attack.And those on the left,and this blog excel at that.Just look at any mention of Palin or Beck.It is not comparable to Pelosi or Obama.And they effect everyones life!
Opinions are fine. Sometimes they’re really funny. Keep them coming, but don’t forget to flush.
It is ironic that we sit here and debate whether the “Right” or the “Left” might have influenced this crazy gunman while our elected Government continues to fly drones over Pakistan and drop bombs on innocent humans (whose death toll count far exceeds that of a this lone gunman).
Michael e. Same ol’ crap from you, but for Harold to use the words,”truth, honesty, impartiality, and facts,” as being something not associated with Keith and Rachel is wrong, just really untrue. And in the same spew as the mention of Keith Olberman and Rachel Maddow as being nothing but calling out and blaming the Republicans, Palin, and Bush as being at fault. Olberman and Maddow both have the facts and can back up what they say, but to include them with the New York Times, USA Today, Time, and Newsweek is not exactly correct. FAIR frequently calls out the aforementioned publications, but I have not heard Keith and Rachel say anything untrue intentionally, and if they do, they correct it as soon as they find out. But Beck, O’reilly, Hannity, Newt, Doocy, Carlson, Levin, Savage, Rush and Palin would never correct what they say if it is found to be untrue. No right wingers do corrections, they usually deflect, deny and just outright lie through their teeth. Beck and O’reilly used to talk about having to do jailtime for not getting healthcare, but they deny it, and it is on several tapes showing that they did indeed say that. All the while, it was untrue.
And the left never spewed that Obama went to India and it was gonna cost $200 million a day, and more. But Beck and all those at FOX noise did. Just like the LA police force was going to get personal jet packs, 10,000 of them, according to FOX noise.
There is a false equivalence, the right spews Bulls**t and the left talks the truth; the right has been spouting killing Obama, Michael Moore, Nancy Pelosi, Assange, and others with the violent rhetoric that is their trademark talking points. “armed and dangerous,” “make them afraid to come out of their homes,” “don’t retreat, reload,” “2nd amendment remedies,” “if the vote doesn’t work, then bullets will.” All of this right wing spew of violent rhetoric. Obama did quote from The Untouchables, the movie, that effectively he would bring a gun to a knife fight, but it was said metaphorically to respond to a questioner. The right is always playing the victim, “poor white folks.”
And……..the same old crap from you Raymond.But the most interesting(racist?) thing you said was your last line.”Poor white folks”Imagine if had i said…..The Democratic party is always playing the victim,”poor black folks.”Holy shit but the whip comes down.How about kathy blacks inappropriate remarks ho hummed aside?Imagine an R saying that.How about that Az shooting victim threatening the tea party leader.Ho hum…Or if Sarah Palin said you bring a knife….. All is Ok as long as it a Dem saying it.Hypocrite.
You say these lib leaders are being threatened by the right.Thats a lie.That is such a liberal canard.And Bill O often does corrections.As far as how much India cost.Who knows…the white house wont tell.So dont be so high and mighty.As far as who is right and who is wrong…that is what we are beefing about.Freedom of speech baby.Let the voting commence and the better man win.Your goal here and the goal of your side is to silence the right the tea party and anyone hurting BAM.Sorry we refuse to go to the back of the bus.To shut up,or be silenced in any way.The gravy boat done sailed.We are gonna forge ahead,force you to take responsibility for your own actions and in doing so;show America who and what you are.So keep cutting slack to your lot.We will tell our side that they are on a tight rope,and we mean to hold them accountable.